West Virginia Wrestling -- February 2004 Forum (Part Three)
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February 17, 2004
From: Lloyd Christmas
comments: I could care less if Humphrey went to state last year or not....WHO CARES....it is this year and Humphrey is by far the #2 man in that class, maybe even #1. It is a shame that Turnbull and Humphrey will have to wrestle in the semis. Hays and McCray are good but still.....THis is a CRIME! The kid hasnt lost!
February 17, 2004
comments: I would just like to say Porter was beat by Rader (understandable) in the State Finals last year as a freshman.
February 17, 2004
comments: i seen McFarland wrestled 135 against oak glenn and he is suppose to place at states at 125. but if u bump up 2 weight classes i heard u wasnt aloud to go back down so is he aloud to go back down and wrestle 125 for regionals or is he not aloud someone please post if he is aloud
February 17, 2004
From: lkc obsever
comments: i believe the score between griffin and sampson was 10-4
February 17, 2004
comments: to: peter pan
how could u have griffin from roane in the finals for region IV when he got beat at lkcs 10-6 by jaron sampson the third seeded kid from calhoun
February 17, 2004
From: 500
comments: My region 1 finals picks
103-Green pin Bartolo
112-Ewing dec. Rush 6-4
119-Turnbull dec. Hayes 8-2
125-Shyver dec. Garvin 9-3
130-Rader pin Durbin
135-Shaw dec. Porter 5-2
140-Smith dec. Miller 10-4
145-Litton dec. Richey 7-0
152-Smith MD Mestrovic 17-5
160-Davis dec. Norman 3-2
171-Walters pin Myers
189-Lindamood dec.Tominack 7-5
215-Thomas pin Anderson
HWT-Dearman pin Dorton
February 17, 2004
comments: for the person wanting Region II A/AA 135 predictions
D. Allen
J. McCarty
A. Burks
N Burner/T. Pennington
Let's hear some more
February 17, 2004
From: Robert Hickman
comments: To Panhandle fan, thanks for your comment. I've coached and been at seeding meetings. You would be surprised at the things that go on behind closed doors. Many, many coaches are true professionals. Many are not. I'd really like to here from coaches on this matter. I doubt a long, combative seeding meeting would be worth the no extra pay the coaches would receive. Plus, beleive it or not, some coaches would not show up!! God help those kids when a coach is absent. The result of a seeding would at best probably not produce a better result . Speak up coaches!!!
February 17, 2004
comments: anyone have predictions for AA/A region 2 135 weight class
February 17, 2004
comments: Does anyone have any predictions on region 2 AAA? I think it is going to be close with East Fairmont and Hedgesville.
February 17, 2004
From: South Wrestling Fan
comments: Every year I get to give you my opinion on the state individual winners.I usually do this the week after the regionals,but for only the second time in 34 years I will miss the state tourney because of other obligations(beyond my control!).So here goes my blind shot:
103 Green WP
112 Easter Nitro
119 Turnbull Univ
125 Shyver PHS
130 Rader PHS
135 Porter PS( Oh,yes he can!)
140 Smith Ripley (I want to put a PS after Smith!)
145 Litton PHS (good luck Chance!)
152 Smith PS
160 Norman PS
171 Walters PS (Prime Time!!)
189 Lindamood PHS (on stamina)
215 Thomas PHS ( 3 timer Lou!)
275 Dearman PHS
Hard to do this before regionals...wrestlers could get hurt etc.There will be some upsets,happens every year. State AAA team champions....my South Patriots!!! Go get em' boys!!
February 17, 2004
From: Fan
comments: Humphrey did not wrestle in the matches against University
and PHS last week. That probably had some bearing on his
4th seed in the regionals. Who knows? I also am not sure why
Porter was seeded ahead of Shaw, but that will be interesting
if they meet in the finals. It would have helped clear some
things up if South and Brooke had wrestled in the regular season.
We'll find out Saturday.
February 17, 2004
From: Iron
comments: Humprhy may be seeded 4th because he did not even make it to state last year. But Hayes was runner-up last year, McCray didnt go to state but did beat Hayes this year in double OT. And Turnbull beat McCray by pin and Hayes by dec 5-1. That explains it all really.Humphry hasnt wrestled anyone of those guys.
February 17, 2004
From: To - Yucatan Man
comments: There you go again!!!! At this point right before regionals, you can't actually put any 2 wrestlers in the finals until the pills are drawn. Please after the regional results are in and the pill is drawn then please feel free to post your opinions.
February 17, 2004
From: No One Mentioned Parkersburg in the Post
comments: From: To: "The State Tournament is to fin out determine the state champion. End of story."
Actually there was no mention of Parkersburg what so ever in the post so why did you read yourself into it. I read it as a statement not directed to anyone or any team in particular. I bet if you ask any wrestler in the state tournament he will say his main goal for being there is to win a state championship. So quit your crying, whining or whatever and don't take this forum so seriously. Read at the top what the doc said about all the posting "take them with a grain of salt".
February 17, 2004
From: Pirate_Mann
comments: "The State Tournament is to find out determine the state champion. End of story."
Obviously the purpose of the state tournament is not solely to find the champion. If this were the case there would not be a consolation bracket. If all you care about is the champion that's fine. But don't try to claim what the state tournament is or is not because you have no authority to do so. Every wrestler, coach and spectator can decide for themselves what constitutes a significant performance. Furthermore I don't know of very many wrestlers who have had a "ride" to the semis. Every quarter is composed of one champion, one runner-up, one third and one fourth place regional finisher. This means (using the transitive property) to win out a wrestler should be able to beat at least nine of the 15 other people in bracket. (It's true that occasionally triangles will occur to skew this but the point remains that the wrestler would have at some point proven themselves over 9 people through regional and state performances) Therefore it can be said that the wrestler is in at least the top 7.
I would like to to use an example to better illustrate this. Consider 160 AA last year. Adkins from Clay was a semi finalist who finished sixth. He won his region so we know he was above: Burgess(1), Shaffer(2), and Merola(3). He beat Post(4) is the quarters this would imply that he was also above the Grafton kid(5) who finished below Post in his region. Post also beat Osbourne(6) who finished 2nd in region 3 above Jones(7) and Wood(8). Furthermore Adkins beat Hashman(9) in his first match.
This does not mean that he would without a doubt beat any of these people head-to-head. It simply implies that of the 10 people who did not place Adkins legitimatly deserved to place above at least nine of them. I think this is about as accurate as a tournament can hope to be. Therefore sixth isn't too bad.
(Before people start trying to bombard me with counter examples make sure the weight class in question didn't feature a circle of people beating each other in which can no one component of the circle really deserves to place any more than another.)
Thank You
February 17, 2004
Editor's note: Here follows a flurry of posts regarding the alleged Region I seeds, posted further down the page, allegedly submitted by Coach Powers. I took a gamble that these seeds were in fact posted by coach Powers. They could have been posted by a Coach Powers imposter, trying to stir up trouble, and may be false. Thats why these "seeds" were posted on the forum page, and not linked on the front page as "official information."
As I have said many times, take every thing you read on this forum with a grain of salt. If and when I get more official confirmation of seeding and bracket information, via email with verifiable return address, such info will be linked on the front page as official.
February 17, 2004
comments: my bad on questioning the not seeding of mcfarland earlier... did not see that he had a loss to waldron of university, but i caught it... 4-3 at Park Duals.
February 17, 2004
From: South
comments: I would like to thank University High for their switches at 145, 152, and 160. Also to John Marshall at 171. In a close race
we'll see how it plays out. Just out of curiosity, (and not really complaining about the seeding) I wonder what the criteria
was that placed Ice ahead of Gerasimovich when the latter had just recently beaten the former head to head in their only meeting.
Also,I am curious how University's 152 (at least for most of the year I believe) was seeded ahead of Parkersburg's usual 160.
Not that I believe that it is crucial to South, but a head to head win over PHS at 119, if they meet as expected in the semis
(let's not overlook Smith of Brooke if the byes put him in this bracket) would likely create a 12 point overall change in the
team scoring. After all, in retrospect, I feel this was in reality the most pivotal match that propelled South to their win
(not meaning to take anything away from all the other wrestlers on both sides that wrestled their hearts out). It was a great
regular season for both teams and congratulations to all the wrestlers and coaches. Good luck to all.
February 17, 2004
From: Pburgeer
comments: Girls wrestling is becoming more popular, how long do you think it will be untill girls have their own teams and State Championships? This past weekend in Wood Co. Jeseca Teeters took the MVW award. She earned it outright. She has put in 7 years against the boys and I think it's time for female competition teams.
February 17, 2004
From: Final thought-To the one who thought I underestimated southern wrestlers
comments: This will be the last thing I'll say on the issue since people like to take what you actually write and make it say something else.
I never degraded any part of the state and never used the word southern. I merely defended someones right to be ranked #1 when
they maybe were being underestimated. I never moved your wrestler down from 2nd or 3rd or whatever place they were ranked. I
can assure you, as a prior Parkersburg wrestler, that we don't underestimate anyone. We wrestle full tilt from the start. Quite
honestly, I just like good wrestling and wrestlers, no matter where they are from and I can recall many "southern wrestlers", past
and present, who were excellent. I can't wait to see what happens and I realize the kids aren't wrestling for me, they wrestle for
themselves.
February 17, 2004
From: Superman
comments: BS 160 is good also, probably top 3
Superman=Clark Kent
ZenGrappling.com
February 17, 2004
From: Blue
comments: After reading predictions on this forum and listening to people talk I find it humerous when people say "ole so and so is gonna' win easily" or " so and so = something". It all reminds me of the old saying "ANYBODY CAN BE BEAT ON ANY GIVEN DAY". 'NUFF SAID!
February 17, 2004
From: To: "The State Tournament is to fin out determine the state champion. End of story."
comments: First of all, no one is crying or complaining. Just making observations. Second of all, you are obviously not from Parkersburg.
Because of that, I'll allow you the ignorance to think the state is only about which kid wins 1st place in their weight class.
We are certainly interested in that as one could see if you count the number of Parkersburg kids at the top of the podium. However,
when we go to the state tourny each year we are also trying to win the TEAM championship. That's what all the talk is about. Maybe
someday you'll understand. By the way we actually like all our kids and revel in their accomplishments, whether it's 1st or 6th
(or just tried their best). Maybe that's also why we keep winning the state, since we consider it a team sport. Didn't mean to sound
so harsh, but I took offense at the crying, whining or whatever you accused us of. But now you're smarter.
February 17, 2004
From: Yucatan Man
comments: I know AAA 145 is LOADED : Litton, Osuna-Cotto, Richey, Nelson, Demastes, Wilson, Connor all have a chance to place. But the move by David Cambell to go to 152....is the best move all year....it will be Cambell and Smith in the state finals. Great move Cambell. Also 145 AA/A is loaded: Hughes is the favorite, Elder, Dye, Hines, Bonecutter all could be in the finals with him. Stevens also could slip in and place. Duryea and Meadows arnt bad either. But AA/A 152 has turned into in my opionion a class to watch. 145 is still a stronger class, but 152 is going to be interesting. Northcraft, Metz, Bosley, Dennis, Efaw, Wince, Miller, Whipkey. Here are your top 8. I see Metz beating Northcraft in the finals. Dennis toping Bosley for third. Efaw beating Wince for sixth (Paybacks for last year). Miller might make a run in there some where too.
I am ready for the states@!!!
February 17, 2004
comments: If there are any kindhearted people out there that may have found a Sony CD player and filled CD case at this past weekends Beckley Young Guns wrestling tournament, you can contact the tournament officials to get the information to return them. I would be happy to make arrangements to get these items or pay to have them shipped to me. Any information you have truly would be appreciated. Thank you.
February 17, 2004
comments: i know no one likes criticism and i sure dont want to open a can of worms for the Park and Brooke fans, but I 've never seen a kid go through the regular season undefeated and get seeded 4th in his regional tournament (Humphrey from Park). Also, I believe Shaw should have garnered the #1 seed at 135, he wrestled 130 last year and Porter wrestled 119, believe it or not folks there is a big difference there. I don't see how Porter's accolades in the season outrank Shaw's, yeah Braden did get 3rd last year and Porter got 2nd but I mean Shaw's only loss at states was to Matt Easter (understandable). Is McFarland out, or did they really not seed the defending state runner-up at 125? I guess someone will end up unhappy however in the end. Also saw Campbell went to 152 for regions.... might turn out to be a great move, considering his regional seeding went from 4th to first just by doing that.
February 17, 2004
From: Peter Pan
comments: Region IV AA/A Finals
103 - Boggs rc fall Hart pp
112 - Moffatt w dec Hanson hh
119 - Billings rav fall Griffin Roa
125 - Ellis wah dec Leithead sis
130 - Ashley cal fall Morris hh
135 - Cummings cal fall Mollohan hh
140 - Casto pp md Price Cal
145 - Bonecutter pp tf Fisher hh
152 - Metz dec Dennis rav
160 - Goodrich cal fall Brainard rc
171 - Adkins clay dec Carr pp
189 - McCoy hh fall Fisher wc
215 - Tench pp dec Mullins rich
275 - Shirley pp fall Anderson hh
February 17, 2004
From: ratteaser
comments: even though doc delets my posts ..and i hate it..i think he does a great job..i even posted in spanish and was edited and deleted...
region I will be fun...there are always surprises!
February 17, 2004
From: Lloyd Christmas
comments: HOW can Humphrey be #4??? I dont think he has lost all year??? and Garvin is unbeaten also??? I am confussed!
February 17, 2004
comments: last year region 1 had someone in the finals in every weight class with 8 of them winning. this year will probably be the same. kind of funny.
February 17, 2004
From: curious
comments: ? If Humphrey from wheeling park is undefeated for the season, then why is he ranked 4th in the region, below hayes and mccray. this defies reason or maybe someone can explain. seems to me, if there is no head to head wrestling and noone that has beaten the guy that one of the others may have beaten especially since he is unbeaten as is turnbull the #1 seed then it stands to reason that he should be the #2 seed.
February 17, 2004
From: tech fall
comments: could someone post top 4 seeds for region II, as far as rash moving up to 112 and winning it easy, noone beats any of those easters easy you'll have to earn it and good luck not to speak of rush, ewing, etc. 103doesn't appear to be as tough this year without some of the before mentioned wrestlers all of whom I believe would have won it this year, but seams to be very evenly competitive with a lot of upcoming freshman, 112 seems to drop off severely after the top 3, 119 theres turnbull and then about 10 other wrestlers that could beat each other on any given day should be interesting weight class, 125 region I should dictate championship, 130 believe the same is true, 135 look for gustines and porter in championship, 140 m. smith does just what it takes and that is all that matters, 145 should be very competitive, 152 region II may not take the title here but gustines, jarvis, and foltz are fierce competitors, good luck to them and all the Region II especially eastern panhandle wrestlers including AA berkeley springs. ps glad to see you back tyson.
February 17, 2004
comments: For region 1 AAA I see PHS having 7 champs, South having only 3? Campbell from university.....is he really at 152? hasnt he been at 145 all year
February 17, 2004
comments: seeds: South 13 seeded PHS 11. I say 152 dowler wants to go BAD, he will prevail, and combs by a long shot, he'll have to step it up this saturday if he wants to go to huntington.
February 17, 2004
From: fan
comments: I can honestly say I am not a Parkersburg or Parkersburg South fan, so I don't have any more liking for one than the other. I do, however, respect both. Looking at the seeds for AAA Region 1, I noticed that the two of them apparently tried to stay out of each others' way. It would be hard to believe that many seeds just turned out that way unless some seeds were declined, etc., to put these guys in different brackets. To whomever keeps posting that seeding or pill doesn't matter to the true champions, you're wrong. Nobody really wants to wrestle the final in the first round. Seeding can have a dramatic effect on team scoring. Teams with the greater number of seeds should score accordingly, assuming the wrestlers do their part and finish up to their seed. If you buy the idea that it doesn't matter to a real champion, then put as many of your wrestlers as possible in the same bracket with their biggest threat and the ones who aren't seeded in the top 4, put them on line 2. That way you can have an early showdown with your nearest rival. You'll take charge early, they'll take charge of you, or most likely, you'll tear each other down enough that someone else could slip into the team scoring picture. At first look at these seeds, it appears that these two teams are going to try to send as many into the championship finals as possible without eliminating each other first. If this is what they have in mind, they could each qualify alot of wrestlers for the state tournament. The only problem with that is the other guys in these brackets aren't just spectators- they'll be fighting for a spot themselves. These are just some ramblings on.
February 17, 2004
From: wirey
comments: are you gonna post the brackets for the regional tournaments.
Editor's note: We have no plans to do that. If someone sends them in we will post them.
February 17, 2004
From: yoodle
comments: when are your next individual postings gonna be out so that we can all gripe about where you put the wrestlers
Editor's note: Midnight tonight. Updated polls have been sent to the wire service for a February 18 release date.
February 17, 2004
From: Smart one
comments: I guess there are many questions about "the drum," first of all it is only used at dual and tri-matches. It has also been around for quite sometime now, I am not exactly sure how long though. It is not meant to upset or mock the Native Americans, it is merely a tool of excitement for the Big Red wrestlers. You can't tell me that any kid who has another kid on his back would not get a thrill out of hearing such thunderous noise from the crowd. You should hear the terrible things the fans say to the drum beater, those people are the bad sports. Fans are there to support the athletes, not harass and ridicule the coaches, refs and other fans. Last year the girl on the drum was attacked by another fan, he tried to take the stick right out of her hand and was fighting her for it--she won. Finally, if you do not like the drum, stay off your back. Go Big Reds!
P.S. PHS does not use the word "Indian" on any of there school uniforms, for a reason.
February 17, 2004
From: Panhandle Fan
comments: Robert Hickman said "Seeding meetings would lead to backroom deals that would be unbelieveable for the kids. Good debators would get the best seeds. Groups of coaches would gang up on common enemies and the kids would suffer. Just look at the disagreements on the posts received on this website on the predictions of the top six placers at the state tournament. Seeding is just predicting the order of finish. Do you really think the coaches could fairly agree with any hint of civility. I doubt it. Semi-final or final, you must win both to be crowned champ. The pill system has worked well, is not perfect, but is best for the fairness to the kids. If I'm wrong, let us hear from the coaches."
I am not a coach and I'm not defending or condemning the pill system. But, I am a fan who pays attention to both WV and OVAC wrestling and don't think that you've made a fair assessment of coaches.
Most coaches are competitive men, it's true. It carries over from having been a competitor. But to suggest that a seeding meeting couldn't be done with fairness or civility is a strong judgement on their character and ethics.
Wvmat linked to an article with Larry Shaw on OVSO a couple of weeks ago. Here is what he said about the OVAC seeding meeting "I like to think we [coaches] don't spend a day in Wheeling doing the seedings for nothing. It's not much fun and I've never really enjoyed it. I always say the tournament begins on Sunday with us down there fighting for those seeds. The coaches should really be commended. It's a long hard day, but generally the results bear the seeds out... generally. Well, it's very comprehenseive. We submit all of the kids' prior records plus opponents' information with the results of every match in paper form prior to the meeting. Then the morning of the meeting, those things are updated. The weight classes are seeded in random order. We recommend our wrestlers for seedings and give reasons. And, it's discussed by all of the coaches. When there are questions, it's put to a vote, and the kid with the most votes gets the seed."
Yes it sounds competitive and yes Larry Shaw and every other coach will want to get his wrestler the best possible seed. But it doesn't sound like these men can't be civil or create unfair situations for the wrestlers. I think the WV coaches could do as well.
February 17, 2004
From: Pburgeer
comments: The issue of the Parkersburg Big Reds is not so big, It wasn't until the 50's that Parkersburg used the Indian mascot. Until then they where simply the the Big Red of Parkersburg. Triadephia was the Little Reds because not only of Parkersburg , but Stubinville. The Big Red can be contributed to several Items and and the Big Red histroy should make the Natives Proud. No biggie
February 17, 2004
comments: Look for quite a few 4 seeds from region 1 beating another regions 1 seed on thursday night. PeAcE
February 17, 2004
comments: Cumpston From Cameron beat Graynolds from East Fairmont 6-5. 1st period ended Graynolds up 2-1. 2nd ended Graynolds up 4-3. Graynolds scored 1 takedown and Cumpston had 2.
February 17, 2004
comments: The State Tournament is to find out determine the state champion. End of story.
So many people come on here crying about this or that side of the bracket. A true champion would welcome the best competition. If you are the best that weekend, against the best competition, then you're the Champion. A kid can lose 3 matches and place 6th, while another kid can lose 2 (at the wrong time), and be eliminated from the tournament. Placing is nice, but is over-rated. The Tournament is only to find out who is the State Champion, Not to give someone's kid a deserving ride to the semis so he can place. So don't worry about what side your kid is on, if he is the best he will beat them all.
February 17, 2004
From: Batman&Robin
comments: I'd like to comment on Superman! I think he is exactly right when he is talking about the 145 pounder from BS. But have you seen thier 160 pounder. He is a beast on a mission just waiting for that smith kid. P.S. who's Superman???????
February 17, 2004
comments: no one is underestimating the parkersburg or south wrestlers just because they are not undefeated but just remember with all this talk on the forum i believe a few of the parkersburg and south wrestlers will overlook a wrestler because they are from the southern part of the state and guess what our wrestlers have also improved a lot over the season and over the past seasons. so go ahead and overlook our wrestlers that is just alright with us.
February 17, 2004
From: HWY Watcher
comments: is Cody Potts from Oak Glen wrestling Heavyweight in the regions and states??? I saw where he wrestled Molnar at HWY from Brooke, just wondering
February 17, 2004
From: South Wrestling Fan
comments: Iron: I was not complaining about the use of an indian for the phs mascot...rather defending our Patriot from Politically correct's post.It is a fact that some colleges changed their mascots and names because of Native American complaints.Peronally...I don't care if your indian mascot dances.shuck spears at the opposition or if someone sits in the crowd and beats a drum,just as long as the Patriots can shoot back!
February 17, 2004
From: mightymolehead
comments: how about 112, 189, and 275 for Region IV AA/A?????
February 17, 2004
From: Coach Powers
email: tpowers@access.k12.wv.us
comments:
Region 1 AAA Seedings
103
Green WP
Felton B
Kellar PS
Bartolo U
112
Rush WP
Ewing P
Shaw B
Hartle JM
119
Turnbull U
McCray PS
Hays P
Humphrey WP
125
Shyver P
Garvin M
Kelley PS
Waldron U
130
Rader P
Durbin B
Dunn PS
Brewster U
135
Porter PS
Shaw B
Ice P
Gerasimovich M
140
Smith PS
Miller U
Bailey P
Lee JM
145
Litton P
Richey JM
Osuna-Cotto PS
Hill WP
152
Campbell U
Smith PS
Mestrovic WP
Adkins JM
160
Norman PS
Davis B
Lueckenhoff U
Gibson WP
171
Walters PS
Simmons JM
Myers P
Loughran B
189
Tominack WP
Lindamood P
Ewing JM
Radcliff PS
215
Thomas P
Davis PS
Anderson U
Hercules WP
275
Dearman P
Dorton PS
Molnar B
Staub WP
This is only the top 4 seeds per weight
February 17, 2004
comments: To whomever is in charge of the Jr. high teams. Are you ever going to post the pictures and names of the County Champs?
February 17, 2004
From: Keyser Youth Coach
email: potomacins@verizon.net
comments: Keyser Youth Wrestling Tournament on Sunday February 22 has extended the registration deadline another day. Please call PHONE-IN entries to Eric White 304-788-2220 or Larry Wilt 304-788-0973 evenings or 304-788-9333 during the day.
February 17, 2004
comments: Please post a submission I tried to post Monday. This article contained no names or schools, I was just trying to make a point. At least I was not slamming anyone, or what about all of this trash talk about Indians, drums, and Patriots. This not even pertain to this region! I was just asking and question and making a statement, I thought that this web site was intended for these purposes. Discussion only. Thanks please reconsider the post I submitted on Monday you know the one I am talking about. Thanks Good Luck to all region participants. Hope this all works out for the best.
Editor's note: I really don't know the one you are talking about. I've been deleting so many posts lately I don't know which one you are referring to. Re send it and I'll take a look.
I'm getting a lot of posts saying "If so and so would work a litter harder his team would place higher in the states..." and some such. This is a dis on wrestlers who for the most part are working their guts out this time of year, and they don't need some nameless wag implying they are loafing. If some wrestler needs to work harder in the practice room, I'm sure his/her coach is capable of drawing that to his/her attention.
I'm getting a lot of posts from fans who state that in fact they did boo at a match recently, and insist on outlining exactly who they were booing and why.
We don't need that.
I made the mistake of posting an anonymous complaint about a (nameless) youth wrestling tournament earlier this year, and now everyone wants to ventilate their anger over youth wrestling. If youth wrestling in WV is so entirely unsatisfactory, then perhaps its time to get the entire youth program in WV sanctioned by USA wrestling or some such and put it under the oversight of some official governing body.
I get posts from people who are upset over the choice of OW award at various tournaments. To state that someone else should have won the award is to state that the person who did receive the honor was underserving. Why should these young athletes have to put up with that?
Then there are the usual posts accusing referees of cheating, being blind, incompetent, etc. The referees are rated by the coaches of the teams involved in the match, and their ratings go the the SSAC which handles such concerns. I'll not get in to referee bashing here.
Then there are the usual conspiracy theories concerning the pill. And on and on.
The latest craze is to submit posts in Spanish. I gotta go to Google and translate them all to make sure I'm not gonna post something which will land me in court. The Spanish post down the page called Castro a bastard. I suppost the Castro anti-defamation league will be contacting me soon.
Or it could have been that the post just got lost in the flurry. Re-send it. I'll take a look.
February 17, 2004
From: Jenny Sullivan
comments: For the person who asked what Doc does for a living, he's a surgeon in Kingwood. On top of that he serves on the Preston County Board of Education and is active in his church. One of my favorite posts by Doc was on February 23, 2003 when someone named Sean asked him if he'd had a busy day. Here it is below:
February 23, 2003
comments: Dear Mr. Editor-
Have you been busy today?
Sean
Editor's note: Well, since you asked...
Went on duty as ER physician at 7AM.
Busted loose for church at 10AM to deliver lesson.
Back home at 11:30AM. Caught phone call from Coach Archer.
Picked up brackets from FAX machine.
Back on duty in ER at 11:45
In between seeing patients, keyed in AA/A brackets on laptop, while updating forum from computer in hospital triage area.
Back to church at 6:39 to give evening lesson (was late).
Back to ER at 7:10.
Home at 7:30.
Have been finishing up keying in AAA brackets.
Now, 11:06 PM, picking off the rest of the forum posts.
I think the end is in sight.... At least I didn't have to load mats into the U-Haul in the middle of a snowstorm (been there, done that)
(Doc, you have to let this one get posted!)
Editor's note: Well, since you insisted....
I don't mind taking complaints.
By the way, thanks to several folks who have sent in words of encouragement and compliments. I won't post them all.
February 17, 2004
From: dg
comments: To MD: If Metz and Dennis both reach the finals at 152 in Class AA-A Region IV I guess it could be a classic. But after watching both wrestle this year my guess is that following the regionals Metz will still be undefeated
February 17, 2004
From: #1 Stunna
comments: one question who has ron green wrestled from welling park.Try taking a look at fraley from huntington high,and knapton from east fairmont,they should be ranked ahead of them in the polls
February 17, 2004
From: WV MAT MAN
comments: Robert Rash has 3 losses this year. 1 at 112 in NC and Phalen beat him at Jackson 8-4 and Fraley beat him at WSAZ 8-6 in OT.
I think Rash should be at 112 he could win it easy and put Freshman Shawn Sexton at 103 he only weighs about 96. He beat the #4 ranked kid in the finlas of the Coalfield.
February 17, 2004
From: west fan
comments: I want to wish all the western greenbrier kids good luck when they go to the Jr. states. They had a great season with the youth team and the Jr. High team. Wishing you all the best.
February 17, 2004
comments: Here are my predictions for region 1 AAA
103-Green WP
112- Ewing PHS-think he can beat rush, first match was a fluke
119-Turnbull UHS with Hayes runner up Humphry didnt even make state last year.
125-Shyver PHS will prove all you doubters wrong
130-Rader PHS
135-Shaw Brooke will he even be at 135?
140-Smith South match with UHS guy will be good
145-Litton PHS might be good match vs. richey
152-Smith South
160-Davis Brooke I think he takes it to norman
171-Walters South
189-Lindamood PHS beats tominack in round 2
215-Thomas PHS
HWT-Dearman PHS
Any complaints or praises: dukey2384@yahoo.com
February 17, 2004
comments: Region 1 AAA 125 Champ= Robert Shyver, Robert Shyver.....did everyone forget about him? State champ, and state runner up, Garvin has none of that. Come on guys....think a little bit!
February 17, 2004
From: Still?
comments: Still I see guys moving around weight classes. Shaw brooke 145 ?McFarland 135. was this just for the oak glen dual? Whats goin on here.....regionals are this week!!!!
February 17, 2004
From: region 1
comments:
103-green
112-rush
119-humphrey long shot but got 4th seed and got turnbull semis i think he can do it
125-garvin
130-rader
135- shaw
140-
145-litton
152-
160
171
189-tominack maybe
215-thomas
275-dearman
February 17, 2004
comments: Doc, the webiste is great, i dont know what you do for a living, or how much free time you got, but you have to update the page more often. I'm not trying to be mean, but I love the page and it kinda gets old when I see the same ol stuff on here all the time.
February 17, 2004
comments: According to the previous post for region 1 AAA seedings, PHS and South will each qualify 13.
February 17, 2004
comments: the real season starts this week.
February 17, 2004
From: DragonTamer
comments: Does anyone have any info on the wrestling camp help at Berkeley Springs High during the spring/summer? I have a few kids interested but I have no info to pass along to them. My email is sbdragons@yahoo.com . Thank you in advance!
Oh and good luck to all Musselman wrestlers this weekend at regionals.
February 17, 2004
comments: Yes, Turnbull is listed for 112 for the dapper dan due to paul donahoe from MI not being able to go. Turnbull was runner up to donahoe in fargo last year, I believe he lost 10-4, I think that was the score. But Turnbull has been at 119 this year....can he make 112? This is a great thing for WV wrestling, I think that WV is getting more exposure these days since PHS and South have been going to the top tournaments with guys placing there, and also with some guys placing at sr. nationals (Easter, Pickens, Courtney). And placing at Fargo(Mitch, A. Easter, Turnbull) Good job guys.
February 17, 2004
comments: Thats exactly right....some guys in the state are like 40-0 and stuff like that, but as you can see, no PHS or South wrestler is undefeated. Some guys that are undefeated will lose to someone with some curly number in the loss column. Thats why I personally think that people are underestimating sean smith,norman, walters, robert shyver, ryan dearman, lindamood ect. The most wrestler I think is under rated is chance litton, I've seen him a couple times this year and he is amazing to watch, very aggressive. The pill is a good way for the tournament, like posters have said before, the true champ will win no matter what the pill. And going off topic here, although I dont agree with Waldo Ino about Walters being the best in AAA, I do have to say that his state title a couple years ago was one match I remember. After losing to him in the regionals like 9-3 or somethin, he beat him in the state finals in OT.
February 17, 2004
comments: While Rash is an excellent wrestler, he placed 2nd at the WSAZ tourney, and I believe that is his only loss.
February 17, 2004
From: Not politicallly correct
comments: Sorry, I was not bashing the Patriot as a mascot. I just think
some people in this country have gone way overboard in their
"political correctness" stance. I guess we should just name
all teams for inanimate objects, so no one can get upset. I just don't see what damage is being done to Native Americans by
having them represent a school when it is done as a matter of
pride. I don't see schools picking out groups who are, unfortunately, part of our history to represent them such as
the KKK, Nazis, the Al Quida, etc. The reason they are not picked is because no one certainly wishes to honor them in any
way. Therefore, most schools pick honorable groups to use as
their tradition. There certainly were Native Americans in West
Virginia, and they are looked upon favorably in history. Let's
see, following some reasoning, the following terms can be used:
Wheeling Park Nails, Beckley Mines, Capital Laws, Parkersburg
Glass, Paden City Marbles, Huntington Railroad, Elkins Lumber,
and it goes on. Please, it can get ridiculous. By the way,
Parkersburg High School did consult with some Native Americans
re the use of the Indian and were instructed on the correct
way to do the War Dance. And to the Patriot supporter: since
I am descended from some Vikings from way back, I have a problem with Mad Max wearing the Viking helmet when he runs around
supporting his team. (I am kidding about that, so don't get
upset.) I am dropping this from this point on, but had to be
the Devil's Advocate on this one.
February 17, 2004
From: region2 fan
comments: Does anyone know what the score was of the match between Cumpston and Greynolds?
February 17, 2004
From: Iron
comments: South Wrestling Fan: What about the Washington Redskins ?theyre still there with no name change. FSU seminoles....the list goes on and on. I dont think PHS will change the name. We've had it forever, why is just now people start complaining? What would the south/phs rivalry be if it wasnt the big reds vs. patriots? isnt hurricane high the redskins to? i dunno, i wish people would stop whining. The winning ways in parkersburg have the rest of the state complaining.
February 17, 2004
From: Region 1 AAA (my opinion of )seedings-but not predictions or rankings
103
1 Green WP
2 Felton B or Kellar PS
3 (the other one of the above)- it probably doesn't matter how these 2 are seeded as they will meet in the quarterfinals either way
4 Bartolo U
112
1 Rush WP
2 Ewing P
3 Shaw B
4 Hartle JM
119
1 Turnbull U
2 Humphrey WP
3 McCray PS
4 Hayes P
125
1 Shyver P or Garvin M
2 (the other one of the above)
3 Mcfarland B or Kelley PS
4 (the other one of the above)
Unless major upsets occur it really shouldn't matter as 1st & 2nd seeds will likely meet in the finals with 3rd & 4th seeds in conso finals
130
1 Rader P
2 Durbin B
3 Dunn PS
4 Brewster U
135
1 Shaw B
2 Porter PS
3 Gerasimovich M
4 Ice P
140
1 Smith PS
2 Henry U
3 Bailey P
4 Lee JM
145
1 Litton P
2 Richey JM
3 Osuno-Cotto PS
4 Campbell U
152
1 Smith PS
2 Adkins JM
3 Mestrovic WP
4 Dowler P
160
1 Norman PS
2 Davis B
3 Gibson WP
4 Combs P
171
1 Walters PS
2 Meyers P
3 Loughran B
4 Brown M
189
1 Tominack WP
2 Lindamood P
3 Ewing JM
4 Radcliff PS
215
1 Thomas P
2 Davis PS or Hercules WP
3 If Hercules at 2 then Davis here, if Davis at 2 then either Hercules or Anderson U here
4 Hercules or Anderson
275
1 Dearman P
2 I don't know if Molnar B or Staub WP have met and I know Dorton PS has not met either so I'm not sure of what
criteria will be used. I would guess it would be Dorton, Molnar, & Staub based on performance this year and last
years matchups. It will most likely decide who gets 2nd and who gets 3rd.
I believe these are all accurate based on this years matchups and any criteria used from last years regional placements.
February 17, 2004
comments: The pill confusion could be solved. Allow the 3rd place wrestler to challenge the 2nd placer if he did not loose to him during the tournament.
February 17, 2004
comments: I have westled in two quads in Parkersburg, and the big Red Drum was not present. I guess the BIG Drum Lady doesn't always sing.
February 17, 2004
From: drums, indians, & you
comments: Drums: If you don't like hearing them teach your wrestlers to stay off their backs. When teams are good enough to handle PHS at every weight, then the drum will not bother them. Similar to Mad Max @ South. Teams that beat South enjoy Max as a funny story to tell the guys back home.
Mascots: I'm not a native american. I'm not a PHS grad. I don't see that I have a dog in the fight. For those of you who do spend your time worrying about the correctness of the mascot, here's a suggestion: Take that time to sit down with your kid and review film, technique, and praise him/her. Don't have a kid? Grab a calculator and try to figure out what your time is worth, then estimate how much time you would spend worrying about the mascots, then send that money to your local youth wrestling program.
February 17, 2004
From: PHS FAN
comments: I have heard rumors about phs being forced to changed there name and i did hear that if the did they would switch it from the big red indian to the big red engine to satisfy everyone.
February 17, 2004
comments: Its doubtful that region 3 in AA/A could even come close in a dual match against a team of the 3 best teams in region 1, let alone will they claim 9 state championships.
February 17, 2004
From: wrestlefan60
comments: Regional Tournament Locations: Weekend of February 21, 2004
Region I
Site: Morgantown High School
Director: Dan Erenrich, AD, Morgantown High School
Schools: Brooke, Wheeling Park, John Marshall, Morgantown, University, Parkersburg South, Parkersburg
Region II
Site: Martinsburg High School
Director: Greg Reed, AD, Martinsburg High School
Schools: North Marion, Fairmont Sr., East Fairmont, Preston, Hedgesville, Martinsburg, Musselman, Jefferson
Region III
Site: Buckhannon-Upshur High School
Director: Russell Warner, AD, Buckhannon-Upshur HS
Schools: Buckhannon-Upshur, Elkins, Nicholas, Riverside, Woodrow Wilson, Greenbrier East, Robert C. Byrd, Ripley
Region IV
Site: Cabell Midland High School
Director: Steve Lovejoy, AD, Cabell Midland High School
Schools: Huntington, Cabell Midland, Nitro, Saint Albans, George Washington, Spring Valley, Hurricane, Capital
February 17, 2004
From: WAH
comments: Is anyone gunno post the brackets or seeds for any of the Region tournies??
February 17, 2004
From: MD
comments: You want predictions for AA Region IV, okay:
103-Scotty Boggs (Roane), Josh Hzart (PP), Chris Chambers (Ravenswood), Robert Blind (Webster)
119-Judd Billings (Ravenswood), Perry Ellis (Wahama), Jaron Sampson (Calhoun), Ricky Griffin (Roane County)
*Look for Billings, a sophomore, to make a run at his second state crown. I know Neal of Shady is supposed to be a manimal, but Billings wrestles best when its on the line. He manhandled Valles and Rash at 103 last year at Huntington.
152-Metz (Calhoun), Sam Dennis (Ravenswood). This could be a classic final.
171-Jacob Carr (PP), Josh Dennis (Ravenswood) Joey Adkins (Clay), Corey Burgess (Roane County)
Look out for Nathan Gray (Ravenswood) to shock some people and perhaps qualify for the states. Kyle Reed (Ravenswood) may also have a shot if he wrestles aggressively.
125-Andy Leithead (Sissonville)
130-Justin Ashley (Calhoun)
145-David Bonecutter (PP)
160-Paul Goodrich (Calhoun)
February 17, 2004
From: george
comments: While I agree the second best wrestler does not always get the opportunity to wrestle in the finals if he wrestles the champion in the semis, I think the pill system is best. It would be impossible to compare records for schools that wrestle the majority of their matches out of state and seeding would be a nightmare. We often see wrestlers with more than a few losses during the regular season go on to win the state title.
As for the complaint about lost scoring opportunities for the 3rd place wrestler, it is possible for third place to score more than the Champion with bonus points. This is why consolation matches are so important and where championships are won. Copied the following examples from themat.com showing how third can score more than the Champion. It looks right to me. Someone correct me if it's not.
Placement points: 16-12-9-7-5-3
Win in championship (except for 1st place) = 2
Win in consolation (except for 3rd or 5th place) = 1
Bonus points (no matter what): 2 = pin, 1.5 = tech, 1 = major
The following scenario(s) could occur in the state tourney:
-State title w/o bonus points = 22 (16 for first, 2x3 for advancing)
-Third place w/ all falls (winning five straight in consis) = 23 points (9 for third, 10 for getting 5 pins, 4 for advancement through consi draw)
-Third place w/ all falls (winning one champ, 4 consi) = 24 points (9 for third, 10 for getting 5 pins, 2 for adv in championship, 3 for adv in consi draw)
-Third place w/ all falls (only losing in semis) = 22 points (9 for third, 8 for getting 4 pins, 4 for adv in championship, 1 for adv in consi draw)
February 17, 2004
From: parkfan
comments: Rush and Humphrey are undefeated in the regular season, with Green's only loss in the finals of the OVACS. Tominack's only loss came when he was knocked out while leading by a large margin at the Barnesville tourney.
February 17, 2004
From: Mat Mathman
comments: Bonus points figures more in team points than rather a wrestler finishes second or third. I'd be more concern about performance on the mat than what pill is drawn. Here are the minimum and maximum points per placer at the state.
Place - Min-Max
1st - 22-30
2nd - 18-24
3rd - 14-24
4th - 12-20
5th - 9-19
6th - 7-15
nonplacer - 0-7
February 17, 2004
From: Jim LeMaster
comments: In regard to the controversy over the Indian mascot and drum. The issue may be decided in court. There is currently a case in Oklahoma where a Native American group, AIM, with the backing of the ACLU (who else?) has pursued a law suit to the supreme court of that state banning any and all mascots or references to Native Americans in sports at any state supported institution, college, high schoool or otherwise. If they are winners,(and it looks that way) this sets the precedent for all other states to follow suit (pun?). Yes, Miami and St. Johns are now Redhawks and Red Storm respectively as a result of backing down from similar litigation. I don't see the state of WV, Wood County schools or the WVSSAC bucking a supreme court decison and going to bat for you. The surest way to make someone push the litigation would be to flaunt the connection. (ala Fla. States Tomahawk chop or PHS mascot with the drum). Perhaps a soft pedal approach may be in order. Don't get me wrong, I am on your side and think that a school that has had a mascot for years and shows no blatant disrespect should be allowed to continue. ACLU is a 4 letter word in my opinion! Kind of makes on wonder how Point Pleasant got away with their nickname all those year, doesn't it? Let's hope we are not all reduced to inanimate objects like Poca's Dot, Toledo's Rocket, or Tulane's Green Wave. One other point, you might want to check the WVSSAC regulations about noise makers anyway. We get a sheet in our coaches packets that lists what kind of signs and how many we can have, bans cowbells, balloons, etc. I'm sure that if someone would check it out the current info as to what is legal would decide the question at least for now. If it's legal, go for it. If not, the drum falls silent.
JL/MMS
P.S. Can someone post the results from the recent Clarksburg, DuPont, etc. youth tournaments please. It's the reporting of scores that makes this board go - along with this forum and Doc's sparkling wit of course!
February 17, 2004
From: fan
comments: I know for a fact that every once in awhile someone submits a post that is somewhat nutty just to revive an argument or generate a new string of them. One of my friends does this sometimes when he thinks the forum has gotten a little dull. He'll make a simple, off-the-wall statement like, "____ should be ranked #1", or "Everyone knows AAA Region 1 is weak". It's basically harmless and some of the reactions can be very funny to read (makes me wonder if someone is just stirring stuff up for kicks about the drum banging and the mascot, or do they really feel the way they say). You may have noticed there are sections on this site to find legitimate updates and other information, but the forum is often filled with opinions, bold statements, and wacky stuff. I don't think the forum was intended to be straight up news or anything. We appreciate having a location where fans can say how they feel about something and can read what others are thinking, too, but remember that much of the talk is just noise. Good luck to all the wrestlers at the regionals this weekend.
February 17, 2004
From: Jenny Sullivan
email: sullivj2@ohio.edu
comments: Hats off to Oak Glen's wrestling program for keeping their junior varsity squad active clear up until the last weekend of competition.
According to the East Liverpool Review Online, "Oak Glen's junior varsity competed in a junior varsity tournament held Saturday in Latrobe, Pa. The Bears had four wrestlers place in the top four; Brian Rowland at 189, Kevin Crago at 160, Josh Greathouse at 160 and Mark Rawson at 125. Brian Rowland took first place and Crago was second. Mark Rawson and Greathouse both finished fourth."
No doubt we'll be hearing from some of these wrestlers in the future!
February 17, 2004
comments: According to WVSSAC Online, Region IV competition will be held at Cabell Midland High School
February 17, 2004
From: coach/fan
email:
comments: To anyone who says that certain mascots are offensive, please rethink this politically correct attitude and think about what you're saying. Without human mascots that pretty much just leaves animals and objects, some of which are so abstract one has difficulty visualizing what it is, let alone rallying behind it as a powerful symbol. I guess I have never been in one of the mascot groups like Indians, Redskins, Warriors, etc., personally, however, I like to think these are chosen because of some fighting spirit or pride associated with them. What better compliment for a segment of society than to have a school want to identify with you? I don't believe anyone wants to identify themselves with groups they are trying to belittle. That would be ridiculous. We'd have mascots like "Bums", "Prostitutes", "Morons", etc. I don't think it was ever intended to negetively stereotype or demean. If "Fighting Irish" is a negative reference, then why didn't they go with "Drunken Irish" instead? Isn't that also the stereotype? It's because it wouldn't instill much pride. I never could understand why Stanford is, not a bird, a color- Cardinal. Some mascots are obviously chosen because of some play on words, like Poca "Dots". Many are chosen because of some historical significance, while most are probably chosen just because it is something feared or tough and has a nice ring to it. 4H went through this BS, too. It's a real shame that people seem so much more insensitive these days about real issues, yet they find a team mascot offensive. Stop being so false.
February 16, 2004
comments: Recently it was posted that Rush and Humphrey were undefeated in duals. I believe that the post should have stated that they have been undefeated through the regular season.
February 16, 2004
From: sfan
comments: could a coach or someone who knows please submit top 4 seeds in region 1... thank you
February 16, 2004
From: comment to Random Wrestler
comments: I believe you are missing the point regarding the use of the pill vs seeding. The issue I brought up had nothing to do with who wins
the individual championship. I agree that the best wrestler should make it all the way. The point is that the pairings have more of
an impact on who is 2nd or 3rd. I was pointing out that this year the team race in AAA may be so close that the 4 point difference between
2nd & 3rd may be the difference in which team wins the state. However, I still believe the pill system is the only way to do it. There
is only 1 negative point to it that I can see, that is that some kids who deserve to be in the finals as a 2nd place wrestler have to
settle for 3rd. I agree with the view that attempting to seed the tournament would be massively more unfair for all the variety of
reasons that have been listed in prior posts for years. Seeding the tournament would be even less random than the pill and would add
all the errors associated with human emotion and judgement(or misjudgement). After all, there would be almost as many possible seeding
variations as there would be coaches making the decisions. And that is more than the possible variations with the pill. At least the pill
is random and as fair as chance will allow.
Let's look at one possible and interesting example that has been discussed on prior posts. Assume Smith of South at 152 wins region 1.
Now, let's assume the South coach agrees that, since he has not met any of the other regional winners face to face and people have questioned
him deserving a number 1 ranking, he be ranked 4th. How loudly do you think the Woodrow Wilson coach (or fans) would be arguing for their
wrestler to be ranked number 1. You could substitute East Fairmont or Hedgesville or whoever into the above example if you wish. Obviously,
seeding "fairly" in our state, given the discrepency of scheduling and competition is not possible. We have repeatedly seen the 28-0 wrestler
finally meeting up with some true competition in the form of a 20-8 wrestler and discovering his imperfections for the first time. Nuff said.
February 16, 2004
From: Lmob
comments: I think the problem that people have with the PHS "indian" is that he does his dance and cheer with his spear... maybe if he just stayed on the sideline, people would not complain as much... I can see why the term Big Red describing an indian mascot would be upsetting just as someone with chinese descent would not want a school to be called the Big Yellow with a chinese mascot...
If another school had a teamname that was stereotyped like the PHS Indian with a Chinese, African American, or Latino background, then people would be more up in arms about it...
I'm not complaining really... Just trying to explain where people who are complaining may be coming from...
And as much as people from Southside would like to break the drum into small pieces, it is an ok tradition... I guess... lol
February 16, 2004
comments: To M W Fan, Why would you ever make a comment about MW having twice as many Junior State Champions as any other rec team. At this level it is all about the kids learning wrestling skills, discipline,and respect. We are lucky to live in a area that is growing , have alot of excellent wrestling coaches, most of all good parents and good kids. It dosent really matter how many Champions you have . Let the kids wrestling speak for its self and show a little more class. I like the idea of the Owl poem!! The wise old owl sit in the oak The more he listened the less he spoke , The less he spoke the more he heard, Why cant we be like that wise old bird!!!!
February 16, 2004
comments: i was just on the dapper dan classic site and kyle turnbull is listed at 112lbs for the usa allstar team that takes on the pennsylvania state champs up at pittsburgh in march proof again that wv wrestlers can compete with the best. good luck to kyle
February 16, 2004
comments: anyone got results for the brooke/oak glen dual?
February 16, 2004
From: R'wood Fan
comments: I am just curious.....I have been to almost every match this year to watch Ravenswood. I have one question which weight class will SAm Dennis wrestler at Regionals? 145? Sam loos weak at this class in my opinion. 160? Some guys might be too big here. 152, I feel this is Sam's class. If Sam picks to wreslte here, Watch out state!! It will be a great regional final between Metz and Dennis! At 152 Sam in a stronger/healthier wreslter. Good Luck Red Devils!
February 16, 2004
From: South Wrestling Fan
comments: Politically Correct Fan: Why jump on the Patriot thing because someone bashed your indians.While your're at it,two schools,Miami of Ohio and St. Johns renamed their schools for the same reason.No one asked the New England Patriots to change their name
February 16, 2004
comments: The listing for the March 6th Panther Classic on the Youth/Open Wrestling thread is in Connerville OHIO, not Pennsylvania as you have listed. The tournament is held at Buckeye Local HS. Please note/change this mistake.
Editor's note: My mistake. The entry form did not indicate what state Connerville is in. I guessed wrong.
February 16, 2004
From: Griz fan
comments: Just want to give a shout out to the wrestlers at Nicholas County High. It's been a tough year for the grizzlies. They've had some focus problems this season. When they've shined, they shined bright, as when they whupped St. Albans at the East Fairmont tourney, but it's been tough to keep that fire burning. But Do Not count them out. State qualifiers will be plenty, and Kesecker, Rader, and Bryant are all serious threats to place. All are capable of being top 3. The Griz has a way finding heart in tough battles. I know they'll show that heart this weekend in Buckhannon. So, Willis, Kesecker, Casto, Morton, Aquino, Rader, Dino, Corbitt, Rader, Bamm, and Big C: We love you guys and will be screaming our heads off for you this weekend. GO GRIZ!!
February 16, 2004
From: hugh jass
comments: does anyone know where the AAA region 4 tourney is this weekend. i havent seen it posted anywhere. if someone could let me know i would appreciate it.
February 15, 2004
From: devils#1
comments: I would just like to congratulate Sam Dennis for reaching the 100 win plateau. Let's pick up 8 more wins and take home a STATE TITLE!
February 15, 2004
From: #1 Fan of JWW
comments: In response to SAF, A&A and the decision makers at the Jr. States. First, I have submitted comments over one month ago regarding the concern for safety in the weight classes. I will not completely revisit those comments but will add that it is a shame that this issue has existed for so long, even before this year, and nothing has been done to address it. There are many good wrestlers in this weight class, that is 81 lbs. and up, who are not going to be able to demonstrate their abilities due to such a large weight discrepancy. My son has wrestled in the 100 lb. weight class most of this season, originally wrestled in the unlimited class, but wrestled the 162 lb. wrestler at the beginning of the season on two occasions. These are the only two losses he has had this season. Not only did he have a difficult time because of the weight difference, but the 162 lb. wrestler is a good wrestler. I don't want to take anything away from either one of them. However, I also think this other wrestler, who will remain unnamed, does not get to demonstrate his abilities as well when he is wrestling kids much smaller. I know my child would not be as aggressive if he were to wrestle a child weighing less than 30 lbs. which is the same weight difference as he and the other wrestler. This is not fair to either one of them or anyone else that will be in this "Unlimited" weight class at the Jr. State Tournament. We will still be there because my son wants to wrestle in the state tournament...he does not back down to many, if any, challenges. However, I hope and pray that no one gets hurt and you all will think, "If only we had made the necessary changes." I understand there may be limitations on your part in regards to time constraints and such, but which is more important...extra work or children's safety? I know there are many of us who would be willing to do what we could to help, if needed, in order for all wrestlers to be more fairly matched and alleviate a safety hazard. If we don't hear anything else before, see you in March and we will see how it goes. Good Luck to all wrestlers...keep practicing hard, staying strong and give it all you got on the mat. That's all we can ask for or expect!!!
February 15, 2004
comments: The pill can make or break south or phs.
February 15, 2004
comments: About east and west, I think they are both great teams. West has had a better team than east and east has had a better team than west in the past. I believe that east had a great team last year and most were seniors that left, and now they have good wrestlers but they are young. I understand west side is a young team as well this year but they are doing great and hope both teams do great at states. As for east sides junior high team, they are great!! Can't wait for them to be in high school in two years!! I think east has great wrestlers which all the attention should go to the wrestlers. They have worked very very hard to become a great team and to become great ind. wrestlers! Good job guys!!
February 15, 2004
From: Random Wrestler
comments: about this discussion on the state tournament, it shouldnt matter if the pill is used or if the tournament is seeded, the true champions will make it to the finals no matter who they have to wrestle first or where they are seeded
February 15, 2004
comments: the big red drum is awesome!!!!!!!! if we had to take away the indian mascot.....then how many high schools across america would be mascotless? And the people who are religious might not like the devil mascot. If animals could talk they wouldnt appreciate them being used as a mascot. SO GET OVER IT!!!!!! hellooooooooooooooo
February 15, 2004
comments: From: Jack My Distant spot comments: My friends, desire that could go the match of fight of the state in Huntington, but I obtained sadly I deported this last week. Mr. Editor or any person you could you come please obtains to me. I will lack seeing of all the fight in WV. If you wish to come to obtain to me, I am in Cuba -- that Castro is a bastard.
thats what that spanish post read
February 15, 2004
From: anon
comments: South Wrestling Fan: Sorry about the caps, I just want people to read what I post.....get my point across. But since I've gotten 2 complaints on here about the caps then I guess I'll use little letters. And people quit crying about PHS's drum, they only beat it when someone is about to get pinned, so deal with it!! It's crazy the people in this state, all they do is complain about things they have no control over. You dont like it, then dont go, simple as that. If you want to see good wrestling, then come on down.
February 15, 2004
comments: From PHS: To the Brooke Fan who thought PHS fans were booing their 215 pounder, it sounds like they booo every time our 215 wrestles. I am sure that you were in fact hearing Looouuuu. I sincerely hope no offense was taken by your fans or your 215 freshman. It takes a lot of guts to go out there and wrestle a senior. Good luck to him the rest of the year and his next three years of high school. It is tough on the younger kids who happen to wrestle higher weights, as they are usually up against an 18 year old. Good for him for going out there and getting the experience. It will help him in the long run.
February 15, 2004
From: Politcally Correct Fan
comments: Whoever posted the message re the Indian mascot for PHS needs
to reexamine your thoughts. If you are taking that stance,
then any team who uses anything other than an inanimate object,
such as a Poca Dot, is misusing the mascot. I don't think
that having a Native American as a mascot could be insulting
to Native Americans when it is not being used in a disparaging
manner, any more than Huntington using the Highlanders as a
mascot would be disparaging to Scottish-Americans. I am quite
sure that all wrestlers on that team are not all descended
from Scottish immigrants. I am also equally sure that the
nickname "Patriots" could not be used by a team if the standard
was the one you must be assuming is politically correct. A
Patriot represents the Americans who fought for our independence.
So, would that then become an insult to those Patriots who
are now being represented by Americans who did not have ancestors
in that war? Your theory is one of those politically correct
thoughts which do not hold up under examination.
February 15, 2004
comments: I saw a youth team this weekend at both the Panther Prowl and the Young Guns Shoot-Out called the Backyard Brawlers, where are they from? Good Wrestlers.
February 15, 2004
comments: The big red drum is a disrespect to the native american heritage and should be stopped...as should their indian mascot!
February 15, 2004
From: miracles could happen but usually don't
comments: For all you Seniors the time has come. Many of you are going to step it up in the practice room for the next few weeks. Hoping it leads you to the top of the podium. Some of you will succeed and become a state champ. Many will fail. The big difference is many of those who fail just recently stepped it up and believe that will be enough to do it. The ones who win, will be the ones who have been driven for years and have put in way more time than the dreamers. The next two weeks for the winners is same routine that they have had for years, hard work. Miracles happen but do not count on it as the cream will rise to the top!!!
February 15, 2004
From: region three aa watcher
comments: Here is how the wrestlers from this region will fair at states.
103- Rash should win easily
119- Neal will win but do not overlook anybody and stay focused.
125- Scarbro will win but has not wrestled much and that could hurt him.
130- Harvey top three, has a shot to win.
171- Thompson has legitimate shot.
189- Smith if he keeps wrestling good can win. Ward has a shot too, but cannot stop Smith's takedowns. Offense wins. Smith has beat Ward 3 out of 4 and the head game may be entering into play.
Will be a few other placers but no one else fighting for the title. As a team in the big tournament Shady will do well but will not have enough balance to beat Oak Glen. Could finish as high as 2 or as low 6. We will see in two weeks.
February 15, 2004
From: Robert Hickman
comments: Personally, I'd like to here some of the high school coaches opionions on seeding the state tournment. I'd bet the vast majority of them favor the pill system. Seeding meetings would lead to backroom deals that would be unbelieveable for the kids. Good debators would get the best seeds. Groups of coaches would gang up on common enemies and the kids would suffer. Just look at the disagreements on the posts received on this website on the predictions of the top six placers at the state tournament. Seeding is just predicting the order of finish. Do you really think the coaches could fairly agree with any hint of civility. I doubt it. Semi-final or final, you must win both to be crowned champ. The pill system has worked well, is not perfect, but is best for the fairness to the kids. If I'm wrong, let us hear from the coaches.
February 15, 2004
From: Confused and Upset
comments: Why did they change the regional tournament to a one day thing.
Editor's note: With the latest realignment of AAA and AA/A, some regions found themselves with only 8 teams.
You can run an 8 man double elimination tournament in one day. You cannot run a double elimination tournament with more than 8 on the bracket in one day, lest you run afoul of the "no more than 5 matches in one day" rule.
Most (all) of the AAA teams are down to 8 or fewer teams in a region.
There may be some AA/A regions which will still be running a two day tournament on Friday and Saturday. I don't know which will and which won't. Just because there are more than 8 teams in a region does not mean that there will be more than 8 on all the brackets. In years past on occasion it has not been known whether the tournament for a given region will be one or two days, until after the seeding meeting.
February 15, 2004
From: parent
comments: to observer regarding the east-west controversity west will never be jealous of east in any sport. i hope you have all state champs . first of all west beat you allstarts in a dual with 5 freshmen 3 soph 2 sr is that dominating? noth marion beat east also in a dual. the only dominatance is in tour where you get wrestle backs. you almost didnt 2nd place in the ncac losing by 27 pts going into the last round against west. in college when a boy transfer he has to sit out a yr the same should be for high school. if a team is going to have a good yr theyll transfer. will'll see what happens in the state tour my opinion for east no state camps maybe 103 if luckey west will be back picking up 2 good asst coaches . if miller jr high could keep there kids from transfering or being recruited by other schools that would help. maybe you ought to go to parks. to recruit weat will beat east in football baseball basketball swimming and already beat them in wrestling. nothing pers!
onal only bussiness.
February 15, 2004
From: Big Red Fan
comments: To Brooke Bruin fan: What is the problem with beating the
drum? It wasn't directed at any particular wrestler, it was
done as we were hoping for a pin, as all teams hope for a pin.
I don't remember hearing any booing, although if the 215 pounder
was perceived as stalling, that could have been the reason.
February 15, 2004
From: Jack Mi Lejos
comments: Mis amigos, deseo que podría ir el torneo de lucha del estado en Huntington, pero conseguí tristemente deporté esta última semana. El señor Editor o cualquier persona podría usted viene por favor me consigue. Faltaré el ver de toda la lucha en WV. Si usted desea venir conseguirme, estoy en Cuba -- ese Castro es un bastardo.
February 15, 2004
From: Brent Sams
comments: reply: determination of byes.
Rule 10.3.2 "...byes are placed by mutual consent or drawn so they are distributed evenly throughout the bracket."
The placement of byes vary for each tournament. One region may consent to give byes to the top seeds where another region may draw byes from a numbered pill. In either situation, The order of bracket placement is 1- seeded wrestlers, 2-byes, 3- remaining wrestlers.
February 15, 2004
comments: Sick of you never posting my stuff. Some people talk about tournaments but when I do you do not post it. Be a little more consistent!!!!!!!!!!!!
February 15, 2004
From: mightymolehead
comments: and predictions for Region IV AA/A
February 15, 2004
comments: Are Rush and Humphrey undefeated in duals for there career or just for the season?
February 15, 2004
From: PHS
comments: Hey bruin fan, Think about it for second, They werent booing your 215 lber, They were saying LOOOUUUU! And the Drum rocks!!
February 15, 2004
From: The Specialist
comments: I just want to wish James Casto of PP goodluck at regionals this week. Take it to 'em... From your Big Cousin in Iraq.
February 15, 2004
From: State Tournament thought- once again
comments: I sent a post similiar to this one but it didn't get posted and that is why I labeled my 2nd post as " ps: Another State Tournament thought"
Fortunately, the 2nd post made sense on its own. However, it didn't make the point I was trying to make. I'm not sure if it was because I
used the names of wrestlers or what but it certainly seemed appropriate. I'll try to make my point without using specific names this time.
I believe that the real deciding factor on who wins the state will not be whether certain marginal wrestlers make it to the states as they
will not likely score much in the state tourny. The key between South and PHS is that several of South's extremely good wrestlers are in
extremely tough weight classes where the top 4 or 5 guys in the state are all in this region. On the other hand, there are several of PHS's
marginal wrestlers who will place as high 2nd or 3rd in the region while at the same time South's marginal wrestlers are also in tough weight
classes. I believe that this sets up a very likely scenario where PHS will win the region by less than 10 points but South may very well win the
state by as few as 10 points. Finally, I thus believe that South's chances in the regional will be dependant upon their better wrestlers doing
slightly better than expected than certain other one doing more than might be possible for them at this point in their high school career.
I'll add this since I have been reading this site for years but have only sent posts the past two weeks but have only had 3 of 6 posted
and I can assure you they were not even remotely close to a lot of the nonsense that is sometimes sent in. For example, someone was able to send
a post that Richey was going to win the state because he came out of nowhere last year and cited the names of the wrestlers he beat the 2nd
time around. I merely pointed out that those individuals weren't Chance Litton and if the 2nd time aroud theory took effect then someone from
South might be in Richey's way. With that said I beleive is a good wrestler and certainly has the potential to win it again. I'm curious if
I can get a response as to problem with the posts or if they merely weren't received.
February 15, 2004
From: South Wrestling Fan
comments: anon: What's with the CAPITAL letters you use in your post??
Don't you know that using caps is shouting in computer language?
(also hard to read!)We'll read your post alot easier when you use proper writing.Thanks!
February 15, 2004
From: Wrestling Watcher!!
comments: People may be underestimating Region 1 and its genuine competition level in AAA! It is more likely than not that
12 out of 14 Champions will come from this Region! We may not all like it, but wait and see if I am wrong! It will be the most competitive Regional that has happened for a long time, from the first match!!
February 15, 2004
comments: Alright everybody. As you all well know, regionals are this week and states are next. One Particular region lookin to shine at the top of the podium this year is AA region 3. There are 9 potential state champs comming from here this year(2 going at it in 189). Dont be suprised to see most of them on top this year.
February 15, 2004
From: anon
comments: TO ANOTHER STATE TOURNAMENT THOUGHT: THATS EXACTLY WHY THE STATE TOURNAMENT NEEDS TO BE SEEDED, FOR SOME, ITS THEIR DREAM TO JUST BE IN THE PARADE OF CHAMPIONS SATURDAY NIGHT WHETHER THEY WIN OR LOSE. BUT SOME GUYS GET JIPPED OUT OF BEING IN THE STATE FINALS BECAUSE OF THE PILL. HOPEFULLY WE'LL SEE THE RIGHT MATCHES IN THE SEMI'S AND FINAL MATCHES THIS YEAR. FOR EVERYONE ELSE: WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE MOST EXCITING PART OF STATES? THE SEMI'S OR FINALS? I THINK ITS THE SEMI'S.
February 15, 2004
From: bruin fan
comments: Dear Parkersburg fan, At regionals keep your drum at home and please don't boo wrestlers. The brooke 215 that you booed at the quad was just a freshman. That wasn't very sportsmanlike.
February 15, 2004
From: WV Mat Fan
comments: Don't hate on Superman, hes the coolest guy on here. Actually, hes the only reason I even read the forum. The guy is funny, and his site is cool.
I don't see anything wrong with talking to a guy about a move. He loves wrestling,....whats the big deal?
Superman=Supercool
February 15, 2004
From: Woodrow fan
comments: Good luck to the Flying Eagles this weekend at the regionals. You guys have had a good season and if you step up the next 2 weeks you may surprise some people. Jay Thomas, the 152 title is yours to win if you continue to wrestle your match. Joe McQuillen-140, Zack Evans-135, Manny Troche-160, Justin Wharton-130 and Nick Llado-189, it's time for you Seniors to put it all together. The talent is there, JUST DO IT. Sean Meade-119 and Tyler Wilson-145, you guys have another year. But now is the time to produce. Jacob Antoine-171 and Andrew Troche-125, you've had a season to adjust to High School. Score points in the region and get some State Tournament experience this year.
February 15, 2004
comments: Just wanted to congratulate Oak Glen on a fine Winter sports season. The wrestling team is dominating once again, but will have to work very hard for a state Championship this year. And the boy's basketball team is also ranked #1 in the state and sit at 18-0 right now. So it looks like, for the time being, Oak Glen truely is on the top of West Virginia. Good Luck to both teams in their respective State tournaments, and to the rest of the state. I will be there cheering you on. One more thing. Rhett Northcraft doesn't seem to be getting much respect yet this year, but don't let it get to you, Rhett. You worked hard every day in the off-season, and have become a much better wrestler than last year. We all know you can come home with a Championship as long as you work hard and do the right things. Cant wait till the end of February. 8 WILL BE GREAT
February 15, 2004
comments: In regard to everyone saying that Gustiens and all of these other people will give Mitch Smith a run for his money. You evidently have no clue what you are talking about. Mitch Smith is a machine. He makes all of his matches close because that is how he wrestles. He will win states this year. The score may only be 3-2 or 2-1..it doesn't matter to him. He knows what he can do and he controls the match from the start.
February 15, 2004
From: 10 Undeafeated Wrestlers
comments: There is a nice article in the Charleston Gazette about the undeateated wrestlers going into regionals. How many wrestlers have only 1 or 2 losses this year? Good luck to all the wrestlers at the regional meets this weekend.
February 15, 2004
From: mathMATitian
comments: One more quesstion for Doc and Brent about tourney scoring. How are byes determined? I reviewed last years region one tourney and saw that several wrestlers (who appeared to be) seeded lower than the #1 position got byes in the first round. I know that byes are not a direct factor in the state tourney, but in some of the weight classes this year at regionals, a bye could mean the difference between a kid going to states versus watching from the stands.
Thanks for a great site!
February 15, 2004
comments: congrats on brian humphrey an abbie rush to be the 3rd and 4th ever in wheeling park high to stay undefeated in duals keep it up guys only two more weeks
February 15, 2004
comments: MW FAN- Congragulations Mineralwells for another dominating county championsip. Good luck in the state tournament Mineralwells,and i would bet MINERALWELLS will have more state champions than any two wood co. rec. team combined.
February 15, 2004
comments: You didn't hear Williamstown on here whining when they were ranked third in the poll. Cameron keeps harping on their dual win over Williamstown but they only won three actual matches. The rest of their wins were forfeits. They also keep saying how they have more wrestlers. Williamstown may not have a full team but the wrestlers they do have are pretty darn good. Both Cameron and Calhoun sent more wrestlers to state than Williamstown did but we see who was state runner-up. Having more bodies doesn't guarantee anything.
February 14, 2004
From: ps: Another State Tournament thought
comments: One additional aspect that may have as much impact on the outcome between South and PHS is the pill selection or brackets of the
regions. As we all know, many times 1st and 2nd is wrestled in the semis and with it appearing to be so close the small difference
between 2nd and 3rd could be significant. For example, does Rush or Ewing get paired with Easter at 112, at 130 will Dunn have to face
both Lodge and Durbin or will Lodge be in Rader's bracket, will Shaw and Gustines be in the same bracket at 135 or will it be Porter
and Gustines, will Smith and Smith meet in the semis or finals of 140, at 189 will Lindamood have to get by Dellagatti or will that
be Tominack's problem, and finally will Dearman and Valentine meet in the semis and give Dorton a better shot at the finals or will
Valentine be another obstacle in Dorton's path. The possibilities could go on, and of course a lot of assumptions are being made to
even consider them at this time. But, to some extent or another, they will come into play. And this year more than usual this may play
a major role in who wins.
February 14, 2004
From: Superman
comments: what exactly is so weird about learning a new move? It wasn't a regular slide-by it was something I had never seen before. It was very original. "That Tyson Kid" is very, very good. Really took me off guard. I wasn't expecting to see him perform like that, especially coming off an injury. He is a serious challenge for a title at 145.
I am weird though, no denying it.
February 14, 2004
From: hedgesvillefan
comments: I would like to congradulate Hedgesville on there wins at their quad today. The match between Shetler and Nally was pretty good, but Shetler came out to win the match. I think it will be a close match up between East Fairmont and Hedgesville at regionals. I will be looking for both teams to have many wrestlers in the finals.
February 14, 2004
From: dg
comments: Saw where Devon Bosley is on a mission to win the state AA-A 152 title and can't be denied.
I guess that means no other AA-A 152 wrestler is on a mission to win the state?
February 14, 2004
From: dg
comments: I have seen the light! After feeling that nobody could beat Oak Glen I have read so many posts here saying that nobody can beat Cameron. So it must be true and nobody can beat Cameron -- EVER!!!
February 14, 2004
From: parent
comments: if anyone want a prulude to the state finals just go to morgantown this weekend for the region 1 tour you'll have about 9 state champs from there .
February 14, 2004
From: Parkersburg fan!!!
comments: I have a challenge for all Parkesburg fans this year, I challenge each and everyone of you to show some class for your great teams this year, no bad signs against other coaches or
wrestlers. Show all of West Virginia that Parkersburg is the city for wrestling in West Virginia. Come on I know you can do it!!!!!
February 14, 2004
From: Tiger Shoeman
comments: Just a few comments. I was at the Jefferson Quad last night, and I saw what might have been the strangest thing I've ever seen.
Barbour from Martinsburg is wrestling Tyson for Berkley Springs. Really a good match. That Barbour kid is really something, but I think his cardio gave out. Anyway that Tyson kid hit some slide-by on him like three times.
Thats not the strange thing. The strange thing is that "Superman" kid was there. And everybody knows he's a big Martinsburg fan. But after the match, off by the bleachers, I see Tyson, hitting slide-bys on Superman. It was really funny. I guess he needed to know how he did it. They weren't going live or anything, but he kept asking questions like "what if I circle this way? or does it matter how tight the collar tie is?" He couldn't let it go. Then afterward he was trying it on another Berkley Springs wrestler, their 52 pounder I think. It was just weird to see. I guess he learned a new move....LOL.
Superman=Superweird
February 14, 2004
From: South Wrestling Fan
comments: WV Fan: Can't see JM's Richey beating PHS's Litton.Chance handled him well the first time and if you have been paying attention,wrestlers can't even score a point on Litton lately.He has been an animal on the mat and I see a state title for him!
February 14, 2004
comments: wv fan: Not when your name is chance litton, he straight dominates!!!
February 14, 2004
From: Funk Nasty
comments: I would like to give a shout out to Sprout on being ranked and having a great season so far. Good luck next week at regionals hopefully you'll have a good meet and qualify for states. I was in the show once and it was some wild and fun stuff. I'll be there to see you battle at both. Good luck in all future tournaments to come.
February 14, 2004
comments: Well Williamstown does have more returning place winners then Cameron. Also Williamstown had 6 LKC champs, thats impressive. Those six will go along way at state.
February 14, 2004
comments: South will win state and heres why. They will place more, and have more points in conso's.
phs placers-hayes, shyver, rader, litton, lindamood, thomas, and dearman.
south- kelly, porter, smith, cotto, smith, norman, walters, radcliffe, davis, dorton.
South with 10 PHS with 7. BUT...PHS's placers could all be finalists, i see south only having 4 finalists with 2 champs PHS with 7 and 6 champs. Could go either way. But I think south will squeeze it out
February 14, 2004
From: anon
comments: HOW CAN YOU NOT PICK SHYVER TO WIN STATE? GARVIN GOT 3RD LAST YEAR, SHOULD HAVE BEEN A FINALIST, I THINK YOU ALL ARE JUST UNDERESTIMATING SHYVER AND WHAT HE CAN DO. BEING A PRACTICE ROOM PARTNER RADER CANT HURT YA ANY. ALSO I SEE PHS TAKING 12 TO STATE AND SOUTH TAKING 12. PHS WILL PROBABLY HAVE MORE FINALISTS BUT MORE SOUTH GUYS PLACING. ALSO WITH WILLIAMSTOWN.....LAST YEAR THEY TOOK 7 GUYS TO STATE AND CAME OUT RUNNER UP. ANSWER YOUR QUESTION? AND THERE IS A DIFFERENCE IN DUAL MATCHES AND TOURNAMENTS. SOME TEAMS ARENT THAT GREAT OF A DUAL TEAM BUT THEY ARE A GREAT TOURNAMENT TEAM.
February 14, 2004
From: fan1234
email:
comments: South will have more qualifiers for the state tourney (AAA) than any other team, including Huntinton. Schenny's team will take 11.
112# will make or break South, Townsend needs to finish like he starts.
Good luck to both teams, enjoy your week off, drill hard and focus. B-teamers, push the starters to the limit, it's peak time.
February 14, 2004
From: Fan
comments: In regard to B. Shaw moving up two weight classes, if he
weighed in only one weight class above his usual weight class,
then there is no problem. I believe that was the case.
February 13, 2004
From: wv fan
comments: The 145 pound state champion will be won by dustin richey from jm,he was beat early in the season last year by micheal george and even pinned by daran hays,and came back strong at regionals and states. Its hard to beat a great wrestler twice.
February 13, 2004
comments: The matchups for the state tournament was in the back of the yearly rule book many years ago. The reason that doc mentioned before about guys looking to stay away from someone else in the bracket was the reason given for the current format.
February 13, 2004
From: sc uncle
comments: Watch out for Devin Bosley in the 152 class A/AA. This man is on a mission to the state championship and will not be denied. Go Devin! Prove me right!
February 13, 2004
From: to DEVILSfan
comments: why would you still have sam dennis placing over top of dustin miller. miller has beatin dennis 3 out of the 4 times they have wrestled. last year at the WSAZ'S miller majored him. at the beginning of this year miller pinned him. dennis did beat him once, however by two points(which there was a controversal call at the end of the match that would have sent it to OT). at the LKC'S miller was sick and still beat dennis by a major decision. plus in the finals miller only got beat by metz 7-3. look for a healthier miller in the regionals and the state tournament and look for him to be at the top of the podium :-)
February 13, 2004
From: YOUKNOW!
comments: How the heck did Willaimstown get ranked in the state above Calhoun and Cameron? First of all, Cameron beat them in a dual meet, and have done a decent job in good quality tournaments. Plus Cameron can also beat Calhoun. I know there is a difference in a tournament and a dual, but look at all the returning placers cameron has, plus notice the improvement they have. Come on, how can you honestly think of williamstown to be up there? They even have a smaller lineup!
February 13, 2004
From: Brent Sams
email: brentster@casinternet.net
comments: ref: Tournament scoring
There are NO advancement points in the final round. Only additional place points and bonus points.
The editor's write up is accurate. One oversight is to add three place points when winning the consolation round before the consolation semi-finals. (I call it the consolation quarter-finals, but I don't think that is the right terminology.)
Another scoring quirk is when you have eight entries (or less) in a 16-man bracket, or four entries (or less) in an 8-man bracket. In these instances, there are no byes in the first round. For a round to be eligible for byes, someone has to wrestle in that round. If there are no matches wrestled in the round, then there are no byes. This is determined by each weight class.
It is also important to balance the bracket. Byes are only available in the first round of Championship and Consolation brackets. There should be no byes in the second round of either bracket. This can be somewhat confusing when you have seven wrestlers (or less) in a 16 man bracket. In this occurance, the second round becomes the first round for that weight class. To simplify (if possible at this point) the first round of a weight class is the round when an actually match is wrestled in that weight.
Happy wrestling.
February 13, 2004
From: FAN
comments: The Ripley -VS- Cabell Midland wrestling match was a tough hard fought contest. I look for this dual to a big rivalry between the two teams for years to come. There assistant coach, Ward and Ripley's head Coach Scott, trained together for years. And obviously at the dual you can tell they don't like to lose to each other. This is what makes our sport better. Coach's who care and get there teams pumped up for big match's. Look for these two programs to get stronger and stronger.GOOD job kids and coaches.
February 13, 2004
From: Reader
comments: If shaw for Brooke bumped up to 2 weight classes to 145 can he still wrestle at 135 ?
February 13, 2004
From: hedgesvillefanm
comments: Want to wish the eagles good luck on tomorrows quad. Not sure what teams are going to be there other than boonsboro with there 4 wrestlers. Should be 1 good matchup there at least with Shetler vs. Nally could be really good match. Also want to congratulate the eagles on their victory over tuscarora a new team in their first year of wrestling ever. Anyway with regionals coming up hopefully everbody is cranking it up and getting ready for some real competition. If I don't get a chance to get on here before regionals, and with my work schedule I may not, I want to go ahead and wish the eagles good luck at regionals. It looks like East Fairmont and Fairmont Sr. are currently the odds on favorites to take 1st and 2nd but go out there and wrestle hard and try to get some upsets and who knows what will happen. Everyone was looking at Jefferson and East Fairmont coming into regionals the year that Hedgesville won so anything can happen. Still wish there would have been some better competition the last few weeks to get prepared for regionals but that's not something you wrestlers have any control over. So again good luck at regionals. Also want to wish good luck to all the eastern panhandle wrestlers at regionals. Dustin Haislip good luck and hope to see you on top the podium and same goes for Codie Gustines. Codie has done the work in the off season and really dedicated himself to this year from what I've seen and I'd love to see it pay off. Anyway again good luck to the eagles and all the eastern panhandle wrestlers. May good health, good times, good lessons learned and gold all come your way.
February 13, 2004
From: deer HUNTER
comments: dont bet all your marbles on Shyver at 125, a guy by the name of Jared Garvin is lookin pretty tough
February 13, 2004
comments: does anyone have any perdictions on AAA 135 region 4
February 13, 2004
From: Pburgeer
comments: Talking with someone closer than close to the PHS program. Said PHS should take 11 into the State and figued South will take 14. The rest of it is up to how bad PHS wants it. If they do what they are capable of PHS wins, if PHS wrestles like they did at the South dual South wins. He said it's that simple. He also said look at the 1st round of the State and that should sum up the scenerio
February 13, 2004
From: Superman
comments: Hey Doc,
Won't admit to laughing at my Billy-Foltz story huh?
not even a smile?
Editor's note: I don't smile. Just ask people who work with me every day.
February 13, 2004
comments: anyone have predictions for AA/A region 2 135 weight class...........
February 13, 2004
comments: I look for phs to have 6 or 5 state champs and south getting 3 or 2. that's a lot of champions from one town.
I see it like this.
Park 103 Green
Nitro 112 Easter
University 119 Turnbull
PHS 125 Shyver
PHS 130 Rader
Jefferson 135 Gustines
Ripley 140 Mitch
PHS 145 Litton
South 152 Smith
Brooke 160 Davis
South 171 Walters
PHS 189 Lindamood
PHS 215 Thomas
PHS HWT Dearman
February 13, 2004
From: Question?
comments: I have a question regarding tournamennt scoring, specifically regarding advancement points. Are team advancement points earned in the
finals (championship and consolation)? For example, in the finals of tourny placing 6 spots the winner receives 16 team points for 1st
place while the loser would earn 12 points for 2nd. If the winner wrestler were to have pinned his opponent he earn an additional 2 points,
thus a total of 18 points (16 + 2). Would he also earn an additional 2 points for advancement in championship bracket or do advancement
points end once the final pairings are reached. It is my recollection that these stop once the finals pairings are arrived at. The
significance would be that the 12 points for second would be equalled by a 3rd place finisher who pinned (9+2+1= 12).
Editor's note: 2 team advancement points shall be scored for each match won in the champoinship bracket, except for the final first-place match. If a wrestler receives a bye in the first round, he shall be awarded 2 advancement points for that round if he wins his next match.
1 team advancement point shall be scored for each match won in the consolation elimination, except for the final third and fifth place matches. A wrestler who has received a bye in the consolation round shall receive one advancement point, provided he wins his next round match.
2 additonal points for each match won by default, disqualification, fall, or forfeit.
1 1/2 points for each match won by technical fall.
1 additional point for each match won by maor decision.
Placement points:
Tournament scoring 4 places: 14-10-7-4
Tournament scoring 6 places: 16-12-9-7-5-3
Tournament scoring 8 places: 16-12-9-7-5-3-2-1
Source: National Federation Rule Book
Here's a quirky thing about the rules. "Individual placement points shall be awarded as soon as earned. Placement points already earned shall be deducted in case of forfeit (other than injury) or disqualification from the tournament."
That means that winners of championship quarterfinals in a tournament scoring 6 places have 3 team place points added to their team score, since these winners have already earned at least 6th place. Then if the championsip quarter final winner wins his semifinal, his team gets an additional 9 points added, since he is guaranteed at least second place (12 place points, already has the three, so he gets 9 more). The loser of the championship semifinal match scores no more place points as a result of the loss, but he drops down to the consolation semifinal bracket. If he wins his consolation semifinal match, he scores an additional 4 points added, since he is guaranteed at least fourth (7 place points, already has the three, so he gets 4 more). Winners of championship finals have 4 place points added to the team score, since their team already received 12 points for the guaranteed second place earlier in the tournament. Etc.
In reality, it works like this:
Championship quarterfinal winners: Add 3 points
Championship semifinal winners: Add 9 points
Championship final winners: Add 4 points
Consolation semifinal winners: Add 4 points
Consolation final winners (for third): Add 2 points
Winner of final for 5-6: Add 2 points
This is why the top teams jump out to a big lead after the semifinal round, as this is where the point bonanza resides.
This leads to a curious phenomenon of team points going on the scoreboard before the first match is wrestled.
For example, in a tournament scoring 6 places - if some bracket only has 6 wrestlers in it, then every wrestler on that bracket is guaranteed at least 6th place, and the points are on the scoreboard before the first match is wrestled. Tournaments which are scored on computer will have team scores printed out this way. This has happened in AAA Region I in recent years, and some fans were puzzled that some teams had points and were in the lead before the tournament even began!! But, that's the way it is.
Attention Brent Sams: Correct me if I'm wrong...
February 13, 2004
comments: I had the opportunity to watch the much talked about PHS team Wednesday night and I hate to say I was shocked that they were even better than I had heard. There 189 kid is very physical, I would hate to have to knock heads with him very much. Litton is unstoppable. Ewing kid is a huge 112. The kid is good. South is loaded again, too. It will be interesting come states.
February 13, 2004
comments: I want to say good luck to the South and PHS wrestling teams at regionals and states. Both teams deserve this little break they have after the rigorous schedules both teams have wrestled. Keep in good health, and we'll see ya at states!!
February 13, 2004
From: Rebel Fan
comments: Congratulations to Ritchie County's HWT Brad Swiger and 215 Travis Boone on their 100th victories tonight at the Williamstown Quad.....Good Luck to all the Rebels at the Regionals and States
February 13, 2004
From: 500
comments: I agree with south wrestling fans post. But Waldron might not even make it out of the region. 125 has Shyver, Garvin, Kelly, McFarland, crazy talent in 125, its a shame that one of these fine wrestlers might not make it.
February 13, 2004
From: Iron
comments: To Buddy Love: Lindamood and Tominack have wrestled each other, Lindamood, Radcliffe, and Ewing(JM) have wrestled each other. Lindamood wrestled McCoy from Herbert Hoover. Lindamood wrestled Noechel(EF). Dunno who else.
February 12, 2004
From: Harry Dunn
comments: does anyone have any inside info on what the pill might be this year???
Editor's note: Pill is drawn after regional results are reported. I've often wondered, if the pill were known BEFORE regionals, would some wrestlers be tempted to throw matches in the regionals to influence which side of the bracket they are on?? Nah, wouldn't happen.
February 12, 2004
From: South Wrestling Fan
comments: To Nancy: I know predictions are opinions and just for fun,but you have Waldron 3 and Kelley 4th in region 1 when about a month ago Kelley majored him 13-0.May want to re-think that one a little! My opinion has Kelley as a major placer at the state tourney...his improvement over the season is impressive.
February 12, 2004
From: buddy love
comments: to: fan
Who has lindamood and tominack wrestled ???
February 12, 2004
From: Iron
comments: South Wrestling Fan: Yeah that match with pickens and stickles was a classic, nate never gives up! His one with Mays when he won state was even more awesome I think. Also Stuporman, your name says it all buddy. JV189, deligatti hasnt faced lindamood, tominack, or radcliffe yet so you should rethink your post. P-burg fan: I agree, Dunn and Myers have stepped it up the past month. I like their chances in the region. And to from p-burg: Tracewell tends to wrestle as well as the other guy, thats why he has alot of decisions. example 3-2 over myers from phs. And matt mathman: Nice job with your calculations and seeding.
February 12, 2004
comments: Re: Nancy and her predictions... darlin', you might oughta'consider a career in another field like laundry or custodial technician.
February 12, 2004
From: INSIDER LOOKING IN
comments: Thanks Doc! youre right you do have to read between the lines. Probably more than not. If you ever need help send me some columns, it would be comical to read some. As for pridicting seeds for region 1, the guy needs to know how they seed because he got several of the no-brainers wrong. As for PSHS applauding OAK GLEN? Hes right, ask anybody, if they were honest not bias, that would rate second to being a state champ. And over the past 25 years they know who deserve their standing ovation, whether it be AAA, AA PHS,OAK GLENN,WIRT,CALHOUN,NORTH MARION, and i could go on but everybody knows that if you deserve it you'll get it, and if you get it you'll never forget it. just ask Matt Stevens.
February 12, 2004
From: Wrestling Fan
comments: Question:
How is it determined who gets an award/title after a meet? More specifically say you have two wrestlers in different weight classes who wrestle the same amount of matches, win all their matches, each wrestle out of weight class one time but only one gets an award for there weight class. What other factors determine one getting an award over another and who makes the decisions especially if they happen to be on the same team?
February 12, 2004
February 12, 2004
From: Jim LeMaster
comments: Congratulations to Cabell Midland on a quality win over a talented Ripley team in their dual. Keep working hard and rise to the occasion at regionals - let's see how many you can bring to "The Big Dance" at the Civic Center (I refuse to use the new name!)
To the person who asked about teams weighing in at their home school. The rule book says shoulder to shoulder at the site of the match. In some other states, "remote" weigh-ins were (are?) legal and sometimes done. I have seen it done in WV for scrimmages and even a JV event or two but it is not correct or legal. In the instances where I have seen it the weigh in was done by the AD's and (or) principals of both schools who signed the sheets. This was at the middle school level and a long travel time was involved on a school night. By doing the weigh in earlier for both schools, it shortened the end time of the match. Since it was a JV thing anyway the two schools coaches agreed to bend the rule a bit - but that "ain't the way it's written"!
Go Knights
February 12, 2004
From: South Wrestling Fan
comments: Some South fans do cheer for the Oak Glen boys because we enjoy good wrestling.I remember the dual match between Derrick Stickles and Nathan Pickens at Oak Glen high.What a battle! They went after each other hard but when the match ended they had a long embrace and patted each other on the head in respect.When Derrick Stickles won his 3rd title that year many of South's fans were on their feet.Showing class on the mat goes a long way.By the way...Derrick had one super year in football this season,making all-conference as a running back.We do keep track!
February 12, 2004
From: Stuporman
comments: South,
After having watched PHS wrestle the past 2 nites I feel confident that if you wrestle each match and don't look ahead, PSHS will win the region and the state tourney. We match up very well in the region with the way the seeds should fall. Shaun needs to start pinning his way to the finals. Curt needs to wrestle each match like it's his last. Hueston has the fire burning, keep it up. Felix, get focused, remember Shyver last year at the regionals, that was great.
Coaches, keep up the good work. You guys are a class act.
Stay tough and healthy, we'll see you in Huntington, that is 14 of you to PHS's 11.
Stuporman
February 12, 2004
From: Flying Eagle Fanatic
comments: Mail the trophy, warm up the fat lady singer, and take it to the bank-- Jay Thomas will be on top of the Podium at 152lb in AAA. And turn out the lights.
February 12, 2004
From: Superman
comments: I finished the requested Jacobs Hook Series
It's now available on the technical discussion section of ZenGrappling.com
http://www.zengrappling.com/Technical%20Disc.html
Superman
February 12, 2004
comments: Once again, I ask if the who's who in middle school and jr. high going to be updated? I guess it's true what I said the first time, the young wrestlers aren't as important as the older ones! That's a shame since they work as hard as anyone else to win.
February 12, 2004
From: YOUKNOW!
comments: Hey, I know nearly everyone is wondering who is going to win the dutton. But I am not here to say who is going to win it, nor who won't, but I am going to throw my support to a fellow wrestler who has been and prolly always be the most underrated wrestler ever, even if he thrives on it. I am going to go with Casey Hughes! I give him all the luck in the world and I know he is most deserving. He is great on top, bottom, and in neutral! He will win 3 state championships and should have 4 but had to default from injury his sophmore year. He has beaten everyone in his way. I'm rooting for ya!
February 12, 2004
From: rubberband
comments: hey doc, when are the next individual rankings comin out?? or are they??
Editor's note: Working on a set for early next week...
February 12, 2004
From: JV 189
comments: MATT DELLIGHATTI IS THE BEST WRESTLER AT 189 IN THE STATE TOMINACK AND LINDAMOOD AINT NOTHING TO COMPARE. GO BEARS
February 12, 2004
comments: Myers from nitro didn't wrestle in the quad at parkersburg it was kearns n casto.....
February 12, 2004
comments: From an observer:
Hey West siders, GET OVER EAST. You are jealous! They are a good team. West has dominated area wrestling since the beginning of time. Look at the many state champs West has produced compared the few from East.
Give East some respect, and well deserved credit. They deserve it. Turn your jealousy away from East and towards getting your program to where YOU want it. What did you expect East to do? Be content on being a weak program??? They laid out a plan, and it looks like their hard work is paying dividends.
West set the bar. East is trying to surpass it. What are you trying to do???
Congratulations East Fairmont! And good luck to the current and future WEST!
February 12, 2004
From: Superman
comments: First of all, thanks for posting the link Doc.
I will be posting a AA top 5. I know AA has a very large fan base and I know you guys get a kick out of my stuff. But I am VERY VERY BUSY. Despite popular belief. Aside from running my own website (showcasing hilarious original comedy, wrestling technique, and MMA discussion/photos), I am trying to get my book published, studying for MCATs, graduating in May (top of my class), training for a tournament in March, and working 20 hrs on the weekend....So I'll probably get to it right before regionals.
ummm, oh yeah, I received an email requesting some upper body leg techniques. So, I'm working on a Jacobs Hook analysis on the technical discussion section, should be up sometime tonight.
ZenGrappling.com
February 12, 2004
From: Nancy
comments: Region 1 AAA Predictions
103
1. Green
2. Felton
3. Bartolo
4. Keller
5. Stilgenbauer
6. Taylor
7. Newbrough
112
1. Rush
2. Ewing
3. Shaw
4. Earle
5. Hartle
6. Townsend
7. Hall
119
1. Turnbull
2. Humphrey
3. Hays
4. McCray
5. Smith
6. Shisler
7. Kotson
125
1. Shyver
2. Garvin
3. McFarland
4. Waldron
5. Kelley
6. Kennedy
7. Doyle
The rest to come latter!
February 12, 2004
From: wondering
comments:
I don't understand how Williamstown could lose by 15.5 points at LKC's and move up a spot in the rankings. Where is the logic behind this?
Editor's note: I guess there are some who work on the polls who are looking ahead to the states, adding up the points, and trying to figure out where everyone will finish.
February 12, 2004
comments: can someone post the individual results from the Wheeling Park vs Brooke match on 12/29.
February 12, 2004
From: dad/coach/fan
comments: Could we please get those who host youth tournaments to post the results- not just once in awhile, but every time. Surely they have access to the final results at the end of the day and should be able to post these on wvmat. These folks evidently don't feel like the little guys are a part of this site, but they are. Many people would like these coaches or tournament organizers to post the scores and individual results. I realize at the same time that, while I might feel like I have a need to know or that kids need recognition, these young kids could get caught up in the back and forth trash talk and opinion giving that is happening with the older athletes. Hopefully, people would refrain from that because I'd like to see these youth tournament results posted. Thanks.
February 12, 2004
From: Parkersburg Fan
comments: We spend a lot of time on here talking about the studs from different schools, but I'd like to mention a couple of guys who started off the year slow but have really turned it on and look to be likely runners up in Region 1.
Dunn (South): Reminds me a lot of Ryan Metz when he was a soph. Both struggled with the transition to high school early in the year but matured to become a legitimate contender to place in the state.
Scooter Meyers (PHS): Like Dunn, Scooter did not figure into my calculations in predicting team points at regional or state. Like Dunn, he has changed my mind. The match was sloppy but he dominated the kid from Brooke and established himself as the second best wrestler in this region at 171.
Congrats to both kids, keep up the good work. Big congrats to both coaching staffs, these kids don't improve magically on their own.
February 12, 2004
From: pioneer fan
comments: yes, tommy little is a excellent wrestler with alot to look forward to in high school and beyond. another name i'll throw out is brandon wilson. sit out last year because of injury. watch this kid and you will be impressed. good luck to all the pioneers at states this year!!!!!
February 12, 2004
From: Midland Mom
comments: Congrats goes out to Midland wrestlers for the second time in a week beating Ripley. Extra congrats to the freshmen on the team Chris Milea, J.D. Ramsey, Nathan Wood and Adam Chapman they proved last night that can run with the big dogs. GO KNIGHTS !!!
February 12, 2004
From: From P-burg
comments: Did anybody see the match between Tanner of Braxton and Tracewell from Williamstown? What a match! Tanner isn't even ranked in the top eight. Tanner was leading 2-1 going into the third period when he was hit with a stalling call from the top. Then Tanner kicked Tracewell to tie it up. Tracewell scored a takedown in the last 10 seconds to beat Tanner, but where did this kid from Braxton come from? He gave Tracewell a great match. I would like to see them meet up again. Good luck to both wrestlers. See you at the States!
February 12, 2004
From: Matt Mathman
comments: Region 1 anticipated seeds and team place points (not predictions)
TEAMS 1-South 152
2-Parkersburg 147
3-Wheeling Park 116
T4-Brooke 99
T4-University 99
6-John Marshall 71
7-Morgantown 44
103 1-Ron Green WP
2-Hueston Keller PS
3-Daniel Felton BRK
4-Shane Bartolo UNV
112 1-Abbie Rush WP
2-Josh Ewing PKB
3-Jarrod Shaw BRK
4-Logan Hartle JM
119 1-Kyle Turnbull UNV
2-Brian Humphrey WP
3-Zach McCray PS
4-Jack Hayes PKB
125 1-Jared Garvin MRG
2-Robert Shyver PKB
3-Jonathan McFarland BRK
4-Aaron Kelly PS
130 1-Branden Rader PKB
2-Mike Durbin BRK
3-Matt Dunn PS
4-Aaron Brewster UNV
135 1-Braden Shaw BRK
2-Chad Porter PS
3-Micah Gerasimovich MRG
4-Casey Ice PKB
140 1-Shaun Smith PS
2-Henry Miller UNV
3-Josh Bailey PKB
4-Alex Lee JM
145 1-Chance Litton PKB
2-Dustin Richey JM
3-Felix Osuna-Cotto PS
4-David Campbell UNV
152 1-Sean Smith PS
2-Jesse Mestrovic WP
3-Corey Adkins JM
4-Kyle Dowler PKB
160 1-Codi Norman PS
2-Gasper Golden UNV
3-Dana Davis BRK
4-Adam Gibson WP
171 1-Kyle Walters PS
2-Nathan Loughran BRK
3-Shawn Simmons JM
4-Raymond Myers PKB
189 1-Cody Tominack WP
2-Joey Lindamood PKB
3-Josh Ewing JM
4-Curt Radcliff PS
215 1-Lou Thomas PKB
2-Eddie Anderson UNV
3-Josh Davis PS
4-Bud Hercules WP
275 1-Ryan Dearman PKB
2-Kevin Staub WP
3-Josiah Dorton PS
4-Derrick Molnar BRK
February 12, 2004
From: Reg IV Fan
comments: To Fan1234:
Have you looked at the teams in Region I ??? Of course they're the best represented region in the top ten poll! Even a casual observer would think your charge foolish to suggest biased polls.
February 12, 2004
comments: I was informed Smails, Lewis Counties 103 has a shoulder injury and may not wrestle regionals.
February 12, 2004
From: Fan
comments: To: Buddy Love
If Delligatti shouldn't be left out at 189...Who has he wrestled to be considered a valid contender at 189?
February 12, 2004
From: insider looking in
comments: Hey....If Doc wouldn't read in to more than what is wrote you would understand.But maybe he should? let me put it another way. I didnt say IRON and ANON were the same person. I said they had the same last name. Again i say Ewing got pinnned. as a wrestler I would much rather tell people I got pinned verses saying I pinned myself. which ever the match is over. hey Doc Im not sure but it sounds like more than me are writing about what you wont post on my columns. I think what is trying to be done is we're trying to get the hint across to a certain person...
Editor's note: ...and that's what I'm afraid of. I have learned that I have to read the lines, between the lines, and under the lines. Your post started like this:
"comments: To anon and iron, the only thing you guys(or gals) have in common is your last names..HOLES.."
Looked to me like you were calling them ---holes. The rest of your post concerned allegations of various rules violations which we won't get in to here.
February 12, 2004
comments: Not onl does the fact that Region 1 is stacked hurt region 1 wrestlers by leaving out some of the better kids. It also hurts region 2 3 and 4 wrestlers by making their state brackets alot more difficult.
February 12, 2004
comments: will the brackets for the regionals be put on here before the 21st. i know the rosters had to be post marked by the 11th.
Editor's note: There is no arrangement to do this...
February 12, 2004
From: The Athority
comments: Will Sean Smith win the state, yes, he placed high in a fairly strong 145 class last year and is having a good seson, but is 152 a strong weight class this year, not at all, it and 160 are two of the weaker classes just look at how many returning place winners return in the two weight classes.
February 12, 2004
From: Pburgeer
comments: In the regional and State, do they score from the 1st round or places 1 thru 6? After talking to a notable Ref after the PHS- South match was if he was calling it it would have been 31-31. DQing PHS kid and Stalling the South 275 kid out to the middle of the Mat to wrestling Thomas, which he knew was a sure pin. This Ref was from South. It's going to go down to how the weaker classes of the PHS- South teams to win the State for either.
February 12, 2004
From: NJ PARENT
comments: Can anybody tell me how many people are at the HARV tournament this year. Somebody said their were fourteen states represented,however,I'm more interested in numbers. We went last year and the majority of wrestler were only getting 1 or 2 matches, if that. I know they say quality is better than quantity but when you travel this far you're looking for both.
February 12, 2004
From: Big Red Fan
comments: Lindamood looked really smooth tonight. He is so techincal. The good match he has with HH 189 McCoy was physical, the score did not show it though. it was 3 to 6 going in to the third round, mccoy loked like he was in deperation and tryed a throw, didnt work lindamood put him to his back. Great match though. Mccoy is a good wrestler, but lindamood came out on top. congratlations Lindamood, you can be on your way to a state title this year! Keep it up!
February 12, 2004
From: Stuporman
comments: Hey Superboy, your spladle looks like a banana split to me. How bout posting a pic of a real spadle, ie right leg in on left leg, or vice versa. Like your humor and I'm glad Doc puts up with your posts.
February 12, 2004
From: South fan
comments: I would like to comment on the question of Sean Smith's ranking as number 1 in the 152 AAA weight class.
I can understand the possible skepticism of some observers since they have not seen him wrestle and they
don't have any matches with opponents they are familiar with to guage a comparison. However, the people
who have seen him wrestle can attest to his worthiness. One never knows what will happen when the matches
are actually wrestled but I can assure it will not be any handicap for him not to have wrestled any of
his oppenents at the state tournament. I acknowledge my bias, but I have been wrestling and watching
wrestling for years and Sean has improved as much as any kid I have seen over a one year period. He is
fun and interesting to watch. I hope everyone from the schools the kids are ranked #2-8 get a chance to
see their favorite match up with him and we'll see what happens. I mean no disrespect for any of the kids
in this weight class (and I have seen 4 of the 8 wrestle) but I don't really think it will be close. But
That is just my opinion and I realize that is all it is. I hope the kids have fun and by next month we'll
know all the answers.
February 12, 2004
comments: Looks like PHS is startin to peak again, watch out everyone
February 12, 2004
From: South-PHS region
comments: Heres who I think will qualify for state from these 2 teams, the locks and guys who are on the bubble.
103-Kellar & Stilgenbauer-both on bubble
112-Ewing-Lock , Townsend-bubble
119-Hayes-lock, McCray-bubble, prolly get alot of hell for this one
125-Shyver & Kelly both locks
130-Rader-lock Dunn-bubble
135-Porter & Ice locks
140-Smith-lock, Bailey-bubble
145- Litton &O. Cotto locks
152-Smith lock, Dowler-bubble
160- Norman- Lock, Combs-bubble
171-Walters-lock, Myers-bubble
189-Lindamood & Radcliffe locks
215-Thomas & Davis locks
HWT-Dearman & Dorton locks
February 12, 2004
From: SPROUT
comments: I'd like to say thank you to the people who posted on this forum that Cabell Midland was not a top 10 team. These people gave us even more motivation to take it to Ripley tonight, and we did. I'd like to apologize to Ripley for any tension we stirred up between our two teams. This was a big dual for us and we wanted it badly. Thank you, SPROUT
February 12, 2004
comments: Why would South cheer Oak Glen on when they have Fellow Wood County school Williamstown in AA to cheer on????????????
February 12, 2004
From: Big Red Fan
comments: In the quad tonight at PHS there were some good matches.
University 37 Nitro 30
Herbert Hoover 36 Nitro 28
University 51 Herbert Hoover 8
PHS 61 Nitro 14
103 Stillgenbauer won by forf
112 Easter (N) tech fall over Ewing (P) 4:23 (17-1)
119 Hays (P) won by fall over Workman (N) 2:18
125 Allen (N) won by forf
130 Rader (P) tech fall over Evans (N) 5:19
135 Ice (P) won by fall over Myers (N) 1:51
140 Dunlap (N) dec Bailey (P) 5-2
145 Litton (P) won by fall over Page (N) :43
152 Dowler (P) dec Young (N) 8-6
160 Combs (P) tech fall over Boley (N) 5:50 (16-0)
171 Myers (P) won by forf
189 Lindamood (P) won by fall over Ollom (N) :59
215 Thomas (P) won by fall over McNeeley (N) :29
275 Dearman (P) won by forf
PHS 57 University 9
103 Bartolo (U) dec Stillgenbauer (P) 4-2
112 Ewing (P) tech fall over Earle (U) 4:23 (16-1)
119 Turnbull (U) dec Hays (P) 5-1
125 Shyver (P) maj dec Waldron (U) 11-2
130 Rader (P) won by fall over Brewster (U) 2:35
135 Ice (P) won by fall over Sappington (U) 1:37
140 Miller (U) dec Bailey (P) 10-6
145 Litton (P) maj dec Campbell (U) 10-0
152 Dowler (P) maj dec Lueckenhoff (U) 14-5
160 Combs (P) tech fall over Broker (U) 5:47
171 Myers (P) won by forf
189 Lindamood (P) won by fall over Hastings (U) 1:49
215 Thomas (P) won by fall over Anderson (U) 1:04
275 Dearman (P) won by fall over Fortney (U) :32
PHS 73 Herbert Hoover 6
103 Stillgenbauer (P) won by fall over Carr (HH) 1:57
112 Ewing (P) won by fall over Hanson (HH) 1:22
119 Hays (P) won by fall over Beckett (HH) 5:32
125 Postlewait (HH) won by forf
130 Rader (P) won by fall over Morris (HH) :23
135 Ice (P) dec Mollohan (HH) 9-3
140 Bailey (P) won by fall over Curry (HH) 1:26
145 Litton (P) won by fall over Fisher (HH) :39
152 Dowler (P) won by fall over Smeltzner (HH) 1:19
160 Combs (P) won by fall over Shaffer (HH) 1:06
171 Myers (P) won by forf
189 Lindamood (P) maj dec McCoy (HH) 14-4
215 Thomas (P) won by fall over Jim Bob Anderson (HH) :18
275 Dearman (P) won by fall over Andy Anderson (HH) 3:43
Some good performances by several wrestlers. Easter was dominating and sure doesn't look like a 112 pounder - very
strong. The 189 pounder from HH (McCoy) gave Lindamood a good
match. Joey is very good, but McCoy hung in there. Looked like
a good athlete with lots of strength. Turnbull wrestled tough,
although Hays wrestled well, particularly in the third period.
Litton and Campbell was another match up in the 145, where Region
I looks very strong. Litton is looking very, very dominating. Scooter Myers had an easy night - three forfeits. Ice is wrestling much better and is looking good. Also good job, Dusty Combs. He has had a lot of tough matches lately, but tonight he performed well. Evans from Nitro at 130 hung in there with Rader for quite a while, but Rader continues to dominate. Evans
might surprise a few people in the state. Not much to say about
Thomas and Dearman except, "Great job, big guys."
February 12, 2004
From: rubberband
comments: Ok, here are some Region II A/AA Predictions...they arent complete, I plan to finish them once (or if) the brackets come out.
103
B.Haws Bridgeport
C.Richards Ritchie County
Z.Smails?????? Lewis County
112
J.Geary Petersburg
S.Stuart Bridgeport
119
S.Snodberger Frankfort
125
B.Digman Braxton
M.Grilli Liberty Harrison
130
J.Adams Braxton
D.Haws Bridgeport
135
D.Allen/J.McCarty
J.McCarty/D.Allen
A.Burks Braxton
140
Dye/Flynt
Flynt/Dye
145
L.Hines Braxton
B.Dye Wirt
T.Duryea Grafton
152
Efaw/Miller
Miller/Efaw
Bosley/Wince
Wince/Bosley
*this is hard to tell...
160
M.Mason Berkeley Springs
171
T.Charnoblosky Philip Barbour
R.Waugh Berkeley Springs
189
J.Lott Wirt
I.Blair Grafton
215
J.Lowe Wirt
D.Hill Bridgeport
275
A.Freda Lewis County
B.Swiger Ritchie County
I must say it again...these are obviously incomplete, and just a rough idea at the time...a better idea of everything will be done later
February 12, 2004
comments: hey superman...are u gonna do aa/a top 5 predictions on your webpage??
February 12, 2004
From: fan1234
comments: The Wrestling pollsters can't be right...6 out of 7 top teams all from the same region??? Sounds a little biased to me. Or sounds like they ought to atleast split them up a little better with their regional alignment. Can they do that just for wrestling or would they have to do it in all sports?
February 12, 2004
From: To BlueWavesMom
comments: "February 11, 2004
From: BlueWavesMom
comments: If a wrestler is "dominating" his opponent and is currently in the top position - with a lead of 9 - 0, Why would he pick his opponent up and slam him?"
I may be way off base here. and correct me, if i'm wrong, but he was probably trying to pin the kid.
February 12, 2004
From: hey
comments: To insider looking in: there were many people at the phs tri last night, im sure more than 2 people thought the same thing Iron and anon did. There are many people who post on here that are phs fans, so i highly doubt they are the same person, think before you speak!
February 12, 2004
comments: anyone have results on the univ. pburg hh nitro quad????
February 12, 2004
From: anon
comments: BROOKE WATCHER: THE SCORE WAS 9-0 SO GET OVER IT, I APPLAUD SHAWS DECISION TO WRESTLE LITTON, IF YOU WERE THERE THEN YOU WOULD AGREE THAT EWING PRACTICALLY PINNED HIMSELF, HE HAD THE CRADLE LOCKED, BUT LOST CONTROL. BUT A LOSS IS A LOSS. ALSO JAKE HAYES TONIGHT LOST TO TURNBULL 6-2, CLOSEST MATCH TURNBULL HAS HAD THIS YEAR. GOOD JOB JAKE! IAM NOT TRYING TO START ANYTHING WITH SOUTH AND BROOKE, I DONT KNOW WHERE THAT PERSON IS COMING FROM?? ALSO TO THE PERSON WHO SAID ME AND IRON SHARE THE SAME LAST NAME? DO YOU HAVE ANY PROOF? DIDNT THINK SO, I JUST STARTED POSTING ON THIS FORUM LIKE A MONTH AGO, DIDNT YOU EVER LEARN TO NOT SAY ANYTHING IF YOU DIDNT EVEN KNOW THE TRUTH?
Editor's note: Well, the post to which you refer probably doesn't make much sense because a bunch of it got cut out.
February 12, 2004
From: Iron
comments: I have no idea who anon is? so dont accuse, its my opinion and I was at the match... were you? Also Litton slammed shaw when he was trying to turn him, shaw just landed wrong. I did not know shaw was going to go up to wrestle him but you should always wrestle the best, and shaw did, so good for him. South Wrestling Fan, yeah to much fuss about the schools being combined but oh well, its a thought, and yes I cannot wait til state, I wont be able to make regionals(work), so that sucks but im for sure gonna be there at states. Upset city in the quarters and semi's, this year in WV is filled with so much talent, this may be the most exciting, theres awesome guys in every weight. One of the p-burg teams will def. win it, but noone knows which one. Should be great though!!!
February 12, 2004
From: wondering
comments: just because you beat a guy one time and he is ranked nationally does not mean anything. ive seen frerichs wrestle, and his style is beatable. different wrestlers wrestle different ways, and styles sometimes conflict to where the lesser wrestler will win. i just dont think that sean smith will be ready for states not wrestling ANY of the guys that are ranked in the top 8.
February 12, 2004
comments: Sometimes when a wrestler moves up to wrestle one of the other team's best wrestlers,the other team's best wrestler takes it kinda personal.He should feel challenged and if the action gets a little physical,so be it!When you jump,don't squawk!
February 12, 2004
comments: When a school wrestles in a quad or tri, do they weigh-in at
their home school?
February 12, 2004
comments:B-U has no 103lber, 160lber out Will Critchfield has taken that weight, 275lber out due to injury, 171lber Shane Reed maybe
February 12, 2004
From: AREYOUREADYFORTHIS
comments: This is a very important post. I'm looking for advice on the proper way to proceed with several incidents..... Numerous people have first hand knowledge of this incident, but nothing has been done.
Editor's note: I suggest you obtain a signed affidavit from all who have first hand knowledge of the incident. Collect all these complaints together with a signed complaint by you. Present this documentation to the county superintendant of schools. Make sure all are willing to appear and testify under oath in a personnel hearing or at worst in court, if needed. Make sure you testimony and evidence is air-tight. Might help to hire an attorney to help you through the process.
February 12, 2004
From: Superman
comments: Oh Doc,
You couldn't post my Billy-Foltz story?????
Editor's note: Nah, now that you have your own website, we'll let you have the exclusive.
http://www.zengrappling.com/SuperThoughts.html
February 12, 2004
comments: I attend the State tournament every year, and there is one thing that I would love to see this year. I would really like to see Oak Glen's and Parkersburgh South's fans somewhat "join forces" at the tournament this year. One thing I always wanted while wrestling at Oak Glen was to get a famous South ovation after winning one of my matches at states. Just an idea, but would be great to see. Anyone interested? Good luck to both teams and the rest of the state this year.
February 12, 2004
From: wrestler
comments: Is Smailes from Lewis County hurt or injured?
February 12, 2004
From: PPHS FAN
comments: Cody Pumphrey has been out since the red dragon duals in st. albans.....he has had a serious knee problem and has had to go through surgery.....he is a great wrestler and we hope he can be back with the very young but talented PPHS wrestling team next season.
February 12, 2004
comments: Here are my predictions for regionals in 145 A/AA
Region I Region II Region III Region IV
1.Hughes (C) 1.Dye (WC) 1.Meadows (SS)1.Bonecutter (PP)
2.Elder (WIL) 2.Hines (BC) 2.Johns (F) 2.Cavendar (S)
3.Stevens (OG)3.Duryea (G) 3.Baber (OH) 3.Fisher (HH)
4.Mericho (W) 4.Harrison(BS)4.Frencis (WE)4.Nichols (CAL)
February 11, 2004
From: WLSC 90
comments: Where can one get a list of Dutton Award winners of the past?
Editor's note: On this website, under "Outstanding Contributors"
February 11, 2004
comments: I think Chance Litton and Casey Hughes would be a great match-up at 145. They are clearly the best 2 145 pounders in the state.
February 11, 2004
From: To: East Hater
comments: I think that you are trying to mislead the forum readers about East Farimont's team. East has beat several AAA teams as well as some very good AA/A teams. They placed 3rd at the WSAZ'z beating Ripley and losing to only Parkersburg South and Huntington, there were over 40 teams there. Looking at the "January High School Scores" page, they were 2nd at the Nitro Tournament, 4th at Winner's Choice (even with 2 wrestlers missing from the lineup), and 2nd at the Conference. All of these are quality tournaments with several AAA teams. They have never lost to West Fairmont or North Marion in a tournamnet this year. So I guess I don't understand your comment. They may not be #1 in the state, but they are more than deserving of being ranked where they are. Stop hating and enojy the sport.
February 11, 2004
From: buddy love
comments: you guys cant leave delligatti out of the 189 weight class he hasnt wrestled lindamood or tominack and this sport is based on any thing happening!!
February 11, 2004
From: ???????????????
comments: where is cody pumphries of point pleasant???? he placed at 112 last year but i haven't seen or heard anything about him this year??? just wondering..........states is only 17 days away, i can't wait cause were in for a treat this year!!!!!!!!
February 11, 2004
From: Fan
comments: Should be a close battle between JM and WP Saturday
February 11, 2004
From: BlueWavesMom
comments: If a wrestler is "dominating" his opponent and is currently in the top position - with a lead of 9 - 0, Why would he pick his opponent up and slam him?
February 11, 2004
From: parent
comments: i read where viani (wf) beat shumate(nm) at the ncac because of a leg injury anything can happen in a wrestling match not taking anything away from a 15 yr old fresh viani that hasn't had that much wrestling exp. he comes from good bloodlines and will at the top of the podium very soon. as for the best coming wrestler coming out of wva you left out doug moore 4x state champ even tho he didn't do much in college i agree with GD when he said any 3 or 4 timer should be consider as one of the best , people dont realize how much work that goes into this sport starting at a early age and wrestling tour every week in pa and ohio where the compeition is my oppion when 3 names are mentioned as the best is argumental chertow mason samples chertow 2timer mason a 3timer and samples a 1 timer if it wasn't for a leg injury he wouldn't be a 1 timer.
February 11, 2004
comments: Ewing wrestled for the cougars last year and did compete in the parkersburg youth championships, he placed 3rd getting beat by billy barret of south berkeley (I beleive musselmans 119 this year) 9-4 I beleive. the runner-up in this division (115) was j. durbin from brooke (I beleive the championship score was also 9-4)
February 11, 2004
From: wrestliing mom
comments: Lets not forget Tommy Little, He moves on to High School next year, what a shame St Marys doesnt wrestle P-burg!!! I bet theres a few wrestlers that are pretty happy bout that one!!!
February 11, 2004
From: wrestler
comments: ANYONE HAVE ANY RANKINGS FOR A/AA REGION II??????
February 11, 2004
From: ratteaser
comments: I am confident my big reds are peaking at the right time....great effort last night....and get hot tonight!
February 11, 2004
comments: What schools will be participating in the Williamstown tournament on Thursday Feb. 12th....I see that Waterford and Ritchie county will be there.
February 11, 2004
From: South Wrestling Fan
comments: Iron: Probably could'nt combine the schools together...the people in P-burg could'nt make up their minds on where to build the new school! I also like to watch good wrestling...went to PHS last night for their tri match w/Brooke and Park.Disappointed that Rader never wrestled and Litton is a lion on the mat..fun to watch him.The regionals are due back in Parkersburg..hopefully next year.Man is the state tourney going to be a real barnburner this year,but I'm positive it will stay in Parkersburg...just don't know which side of the river.I'm positive we will see some upsets this year just like every other year...that is what makes wrestling such a great sport!
February 11, 2004
From: Brooke Watcher
comments: Big Shaw where did that come from, he just went where the coaches told him to go and as you put it he was slammed, which he never once said!!
To that point it was 4-0 on some real questionable back points!! Should have stopped match at this point!!
He has never ran his mouth on the forum, and Chance is a good wrestler. Anyone can be beat on any given day!!
In regard to Davis he is our wrestler and yes hes not bad, however, remember what your measuring against! He doesn't talk either so dont try to start a fire between South and Brooke for no reason!!
REGIONS IS COMING!! And just say Abbie Rush did a good job!!
Editor: I hope you post this item, you haven't posted any of my postings for a long time maybe I'm doing something wrong but there is no profanity and statements from a hands on person!!
February 11, 2004
From: CAVALIER FAN
comments: CONGRATULATIONS TO GREENBRIER WEST HIGH SCHOOL ON THEIR SECOND PLACE FINISH IN THE COALFIELD CONFERENCE. THEY MISSED FINISHING IN FIRST PLACE BY ONLY 1 1/2 POINTS. INDIVIDUAL PLACEMENTS:
2ND-TRAVIS HIGHLANDER-103, 4TH-FITZWATER-112, 2ND-DANNY KESSLER-119, 4TH-COLBY PAINTER-125, 4TH-LARRY CRANE-130, 4TH-KEITH MARTIN-140, 2ND-BRANDON BOONE-152, 2ND-TRAVIS WALKER-160, 2ND-MATT OSBORNE-171, 1ST-MARK SMITH-189,AND 3RD-MANER CROOKSHANKS -275. GREAT JOB GUYS!!!
I ATTENDED THE COALFIELD CONFERENCE THIS YEAR, AND THE REFEREES COULD NOT HEAR THE BUZZER SIGNALING THE END OF EACH PERIOD.
February 11, 2004
From: NMHS wrestler
comments: I think that garvin will win it this year. It will be a good match but i think that he can pull it off. My perdiction will be garvin wins over shryver 3-2
February 11, 2004
From: Fan
comments: Matt Lindamood will probably wrestle around 140#s.He currently wrestles for the Parkersburg Cougars.
February 11, 2004
From: Wrestling fan II
comments: Congratulations go out to South's Felix Osuna Cotto (145 lb) for his nominations from Congressman Alan Mollohan and WV Senator Robert Byrd to attend the Air Force Academy in Denver, Colorado. These nominations are very hard to come by and Felix has really worked hard to obtain them. WRESTLING has no doubt played a BIG part in molding his character, determination and dedication to the sport, school academics and life. Good luck Felix in your final WRESTLING year at SOUTH.
February 11, 2004
From: INSIDER LOOKNG IN
comments: To anon and iron, the only thing you guys(or gals) have in common is your last names. To say Ewing pinned himself? (slanderous rant deleted)
February 11, 2004
comments: Sean Smith beat Jacob frerichs this year, frerichs was runner up in wv a couple years ago. frerichs is also ranked nationally.
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