Officials at States 2

[vortexfan]

Thought there were several critical calls that may have changed the outcome of individual matches.

One match for third place I felt one of the wrestlers clearly had a take down but was not awarded the points and it went into 2OTs and he loss.
Another match looked like one of the kids pinned himself.
Another match several stalls not called.

The refs just did not appear to be very aggressive to get on the mat when a wrestler was getting on their back, a lack of passion was observed.

Question about this; has the other ref ever stepped in and overruled the questionable calls?
Felt bad for the wrestlers that didn't get the calls.

[TrueSouthFanInPburg]

a lot of the refs are just getting to old. i think once a year the refs should be tested for eye sight and agility. I don't understand why some of the young x-wrestlers don't take the test to become refs. they know the sport from years of competing. it pays alot better than fast food restaurants and most of the young men are still in good shape. we need a bunch of new young refs !

[Fan1304]

Also an illegal slam that was not called. Thatbthe other ref stepped in on and said it was illegal but the head refs opinion is the one that matters. The slam costed that kid the rest of his matches today

[Bearhugger]

I was texting some results today to friends who were not in attendance. I mentioned one match where the ref missed two calls. The friend text me back and accurately guessed which ref it was. That is pretty bad.

[vortexfan]

Also an illegal slam that was not called. Thatbthe other ref stepped in on and said it was illegal but the head refs opinion is the one that matters. The slam costed that kid the rest of his matches today

That is sad for that injured wrestler!

[vortexfan]

a lot of the refs are just getting to old. i think once a year the refs should be tested for eye sight and agility. I don't understand why some of the young x-wrestlers don't take the test to become refs. they know the sport from years of competing. it pays alot better than fast food restaurants and most of the young men are still in good shape. we need a bunch of new young refs !

Very good idea I like that idea!

[vortexfan]

I was texting some results today to friends who were not in attendance. I mentioned one match where the ref missed two calls. The friend text me back and accurately guessed which ref it was. That is pretty bad.

Actually the same response I got when I was texting a fan who couldn't get away from work to watch the states. He knew which ref it was before I let him know! Very disheartening

[wrestlingfan23202]

First off, until you officiate give the credit to the officials. I think for the most part they do a wonderful job! They're human just like the rest of us mistakes happen.

Second off don't let it come to an officials call take care of business and you won't have to worry about it.

Lastly, it's easy to blame others for things..... officials I want to thank you for all you have brought to the table this year! The job isn't for everyone and very hard work! I think the officials are outstanding! Keep up the great work

[TrueSouthFanInPburg]

You must not have been at Fairmont.

[wiseone]

If you don't like the officiating get off your hind ends and actually do something about it. Take the class and try to officiate instead of sitting back and complaining about all the so called bad calls that were made or not made by this or that terrible official. If all the association Secretaries in WV had a dollar for each time one of you effing experts came up to them and said they would like to take the exam and be an official they'd be rich. But instead once the season is over and summer comes nobody shows up or maybe, maybe, one or two actually do and find out it isn't as easy on the mat as it appears in the bleachers.

Are questionable calls made? Yes! Are we perfect? No! This is one of many aspects in life where you are expected to start out perfect and get better. Pretty difficult to do folks. Are some of us not in the best shape? No we are not. One of the reasons I retired this year is just that. I realized myself that I was not the official I thought I was 10, 15 years ago. I ached on Sundays after a 2 or 3 day tournament. Time for me to admit I had lost a few if not more steps. But I digress. Try coming out on the mat and keeping up with teenagers who have the ability to fly around the mat while you are twice or even three times their age. Get some of the young and newly graduated wrestlers to try officiating? That's a great idea and it is practiced each year by the association Secretaries. I couldn't agree with that statement more. Maybe if you experts would stay of their backs, criticizing every little mistake they make while they are learning we would be able to retain a good number of these kids and they would go on to have a long career as an official. No. You jump on them like you do the more experienced "older" officials because you know it all. Probably never picked up a Rule Book or even know where to find one. Much less read and understand how the rules are applied.And you wonder where all the young guys go. They leave because you all don't have the courtesy to give them the time and understanding to learn the sport.

Just because a loud noise sounds like a "bad call" doesn't necessarily make it illegal. Do you think we make these "bad calls" on purpose or we don't know the rule? Do you? We take two tests each year. We must pass the first one with at least a 70% grade out of a hundred questions. Yes its an open book test. Any official I know doesn't use the open book to take the test. You see, we do have some pride. The second test is a closed book test and depending on how well you score on it determines your rating for the year. A 1.00 rating is what we all are after but few obtain. If you want to work the State tournament you must have a rating close to 1.00 and be a Class I official. This ha\s been repeated over and over so many times it should be etched in your memory.

So before you sit back and complain know what the hell you're talking about.

As a friend from Fairmont said recently, "You may not like them, but you can't do what they do" And I will add something more to that. Taking a cue from an often over used saying, "Those who can, officiate. Those who can't bitch".

Have a nice day!

Ray Marling
OV0453 (retired)

[Bucktail]

Mr. Marling I agree with you, but I saw a wrestler have to explain to a ref he was using a rollback tilt and how that worked after it was called potentially dangerous. I get that there is a trapped arm, but in that move the control wrestler lands first. In the refs defense, he did allow the rollback tilt after getting the explanation from the wrestler. In another incident, in my opinion, there was a takedown where the wrestler had both feet of the opposing wrestler and both his feet where in, but one was in the air, but clearly in the circle. the ref said it was out, because the knee was out, but the coaches protested that the knee doesn't matter if the knee is out as long as the feet are in. I have always been taught that is how the rule was written. The ref's explanation, "the knee was out."

My point, making a bad call happens, but interpreting the rules differently than the other referees and not possessing knowledge about wrestling moves and tactics is different. Each referee is paid to have and use that knowledge. I can totally excuse if they miss a call because they did not see it the same way as I did, as I may not have the right perspective, but to reinforce an explanation against the rules or to be ignorant of moves is not seeing or making a bad call. In my opinion, that is just bad refereeing.

There were many good calls made and I want to say thank to the referees for taking time out of their schedules to come officiate on a Monday and a Tuesday.

[keepitinthecircle]

I have only been around this great sport for 11 years. In my opinion I see more athletes going to camps and clinics to learn and improve. I in no way could be an official. Officiating mistakes will even out when called fairly which is done most of the time. There are occasions that I've saw that are a disgrace to our sport and hard to take. Families spend countless dollars to try to improve these athletes. What do officials do to get better, get more consistent, and not get a bad name for all officials which should not happen? There are officials that will agree that some of officials beside them should not be.

[rburdette]

Look guys ... Officials are going to miss calls ... its just something that's always going to happen. The number of officials is down this year. The old reliable officials are retiring and there aren't as many new ones to fill those spots. I don't think its fair for the unwilling to sit here and talk about how terrible officiating is. You aren't doing anything to make it better. Stop whining about the problem and become part of the solution!

[forthekids]

Truesouthfaninpkg and Vortex, call me I will let you know when are new officials classes start. I will make sure you get all the matches you want. Funny thing I talked to people who know the sport and been around it for 50 plus years. Coach Stump, Dugas, Hanlon, Michael and they didn't think the same as you. Maybe the are just old. Secondly, you notice the terrible old officials are the only ones the put there names. Looking forward to your call and getting you on the mats.


Chris Diserio
CW0441
304 365 1303

[SingleLegTrump]

If I can beat a rigged election, the wrestlers can beat a poor official. Simple as that, no excuses. That said, my source said the officiating was good give or take a few calls, and as long as there is nothing outlandish or that goes against the rules, it's hard to argue judgment.

[MaleMatMaid]

Truesouthfaninpkg and Vortex, call me I will let you know when are new officials classes start. I will make sure you get all the matches you want. Funny thing I talked to people who know the sport and been around it for 50 plus years. Coach Stump, Dugas, Hanlon, Michael and they didn't think the same as you. Maybe the are just old. Secondly, you notice the terrible old officials are the only ones the put there names. Looking forward to your call and getting you on the mats.


Chris Diserio
CW0441
304 365 1303

The officials were great as they always are in my opinion. Truesouthfaninpkg a referee? Now that is rich

[MaleMatMaid]

If I can beat a rigged election, the wrestlers can beat a poor official. Simple as that, no excuses. That said, my source said the officiating was good give or take a few calls, and as long as there is nothing outlandish or that goes against the rules, it's hard to argue judgment.

Trump did it and the wrestlers should be able to do it too...very well put again buddddddd. Your knowledge astounds me yet again!

[potomac highlander]

vortexfan, this is an answer to your question, has the other ref ever stepped in an overruled a call. I watched an assistant ref step in and persuade the head ref to award a takedown atempt at the buzzer at last years finals at state that wasnt. it cost the winner a state title. so the assistant ref is not the answer.these past 2 years have diminished the status of wv state champ for me. what would be wrong with a video review like in college?

[vortexfan]

vortexfan, this is an answer to your question, has the other ref ever stepped in an overruled a call. I watched an assistant ref step in and persuade the head ref to award a takedown atempt at the buzzer at last years finals at state that wasnt. it cost the winner a state title. so the assistant ref is not the answer.these past 2 years have diminished the status of wv state champ for me. what would be wrong with a video review like in college?

Thank you for that post; I guess my point is yes they are human and make mistakes but why do we have two refs and calls never get changed? Being a ref is difficult as I umpire in baseball but at the Big dance where wrestlers are trying to be cautious and every second and move counts during the emotional match this needs to be addressed. The take down that was missed was ridiculous and the other ref didn't consult about it. I would guarantee those old timers (former coaches) would have agreed unless they just didn't want to hurt the refs feelings.

[forthekids]

Vortex

"Thank you for that post; I guess my point is yes they are human and make mistakes but why do we have two refs and calls never get changed? Being a ref is difficult as I umpire in baseball but at the Big dance where wrestlers are trying to be cautious and every second and move counts during the emotional match this needs to be addressed. The take down that was missed was ridiculous and the other ref didn't consult about it. I would guarantee those old timers (former coaches) would have agreed unless they just didn't want to hurt the refs feelings."

Calls do get over turned,so your are saying a first base umpire should call s strike a home plate official missed. Secondly, for you to say they did not consult shows you lack of knowledge. Did they communicate, "Obsoletely" it only takes a 1/2 second look to know what they are thinking.

So now you are not only going to question officials but questions the integrity of coaches who built the sport in WV. Obviously, you have no contact with them or ever talked to them or you would know they hold nothing back. You're a special kind. Looking forward to your call and getting you on the mats. You then can consult every call you make.

Chris Diserio
CW0441

[aacoach112]

Always critics, even a perfect world would have a critic...

[Gator]

Most of the good officials always look to the 22nd row!

[forthekids]

YOU are so correct Gator!

[oldschool69]

Very good post, Ray Marling. It is a tough job. The critics won't do it. Or don't know enough about this great sport to do it. Probably both. They all want to coach too. But they dontL!

[wiseone]

Good one Gator. If the chronic whiners could hear the discussions that you, Chris, and myself have had over the years they would understand more and complain less. Probably not about us. LOL! It is if you know what you're doing. LMAO! It just irritates us when people bitch and complain and then propose ridiculous solutions and then go on to spout out the negativity that we read in these columns. And we all know what opinions are like. To say that the SSAC and wrestling officials associations around the state aren't trying to recruit and retain new officials is absurd.

This is just a continuous negative litany about officials and our failures. As I said in my first post get off their behinds and do something about it. If they are too old to officiate then point candidates in the right direction to the right people (Secretaries) to bring new blood into the officiating ranks. Support them. We all (officials) have tried for years to get the assistant official back. Now that we have him lets hope it stays and we can help these new guys and keep them. George Keeney took pride in developing and retaining officials. All associations do. We want these new guys to succeed. And stay in the sport. We want to fan in the seats to have faith in that new guy that steps out there as well as the "old" guys who still does a pretty damn good job. Fans are gonna complain but know what you are talking about. Don't just piss and moan. Do something positive about it. Help out. We appreciate the fact that there are former coaches and wrestlers in the stands. They want only the best as we do too. Quit being negative.

Ray Marling
OV0453

[Sportsfan01]

Would someone like to post the steps on how to become an official? I'm not trying to start anything, I am generally interested.

[forthekids]

Would someone like to post the steps on how to become an official? I'm not trying to start anything, I am generally interested.

1. Call The WVSSAC office 304 485 5494.
2. They will get you in contact with secretary of your local board. Depending on where you live.
3. You will then meet one to two nights a week for 6 weeks. Classes for wrestling usually start in October.
4. Then you will be register and be able to start.
5. Usually start at pee wee level. I prefer JR high myself.

Any more questions feel free to call me.

Chris Diserio
CW0441
304 365 1303

[mscoach4]

I have asked who the part 2 officials were but have not received any answers yet. ??

[forthekids]

Monday night

Shane Kildow
Darren Ball

Monday and Tuesday

Buzzy Evans
Chris Diserio
Mike Stalnaker
Jeremy Callen

[mscoach4]

Thanks,,,, at ST part 1 I felt the officiating was pretty darn good, the only complaint I had was inconsistency on stall calls, one official seemed to be to hasty in calling it & most of the rest were perhaps to little slow to make the call.