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Is the Ward-Hart title match the most controversial match in the history of the state tournament? Or overall?

I don't think I have heard a match more discussed & debated than this one.

I don't know if I would use the word "controversial" since Hart clearly won the match. However I will say it has to be one of the worst officiated matches I have ever seen and speaks volumes about how terrible officiating is in West Virginia. I'm sure I'll hear the standard "if you think you could do better take the class and become and official" reply. However, not once has anyone involved stepped up and acknowledged their mistake.

WrestlingFan1 wrote:I don't know if I would use the word "controversial" since Hart clearly won the match. However I will say it has to be one of the worst officiated matches I have ever seen and speaks volumes about how terrible officiating is in West Virginia. I'm sure I'll hear the standard "if you think you could do better take the class and become and official" reply. However, not once has anyone involved stepped up and acknowledged their mistake.

It certainly is near the top for being controversial. However, I would not say it is near the top for being poorly officiated. One could argue a couple judgment calls here or there. But, the main issue of controversy was the scorekeeper wrote down the phantom escape in the second period. If the ref did not recall how the second period ended, he was left with no choice but to go by what the scorecard said. As a ref, in that circumstance, I feel he did what he was supposed to.

guard0544 wrote:

WrestlingFan1 wrote:I don't know if I would use the word "controversial" since Hart clearly won the match. However I will say it has to be one of the worst officiated matches I have ever seen and speaks volumes about how terrible officiating is in West Virginia. I'm sure I'll hear the standard "if you think you could do better take the class and become and official" reply. However, not once has anyone involved stepped up and acknowledged their mistake.

It certainly is near the top for being controversial. However, I would not say it is near the top for being poorly officiated. One could argue a couple judgment calls here or there. But, the main issue of controversy was the scorekeeper wrote down the phantom escape in the second period. If the ref did not recall how the second period ended, he was left with no choice but to go by what the scorecard said. As a ref, in that circumstance, I feel he did what he was supposed to.

I heard the Indy coaches tried to explain it and he he would have no part of it. Once it was over they tried agin and then Callen, in all his brilliance showed why he should have never been chosen for the position that he currently holds. If one good thing comes out of this maybe him and a few others will go away.

I admit not paying close attention to the match. That being said , ONE mistake by an official , no matter the magnitude of the mistake, (assuming there was a mistake), doesnt make one a bad official. Jeremy Callen, having observed him for many years is an excellent official in my opinion.

WrestlingFan1 wrote:

guard0544 wrote:

WrestlingFan1 wrote:I don't know if I would use the word "controversial" since Hart clearly won the match. However I will say it has to be one of the worst officiated matches I have ever seen and speaks volumes about how terrible officiating is in West Virginia. I'm sure I'll hear the standard "if you think you could do better take the class and become and official" reply. However, not once has anyone involved stepped up and acknowledged their mistake.

It certainly is near the top for being controversial. However, I would not say it is near the top for being poorly officiated. One could argue a couple judgment calls here or there. But, the main issue of controversy was the scorekeeper wrote down the phantom escape in the second period. If the ref did not recall how the second period ended, he was left with no choice but to go by what the scorecard said. As a ref, in that circumstance, I feel he did what he was supposed to.

I heard the Indy coaches tried to explain it and he he would have no part of it. Once it was over they tried agin and then Callen, in all his brilliance showed why he should have never been chosen for the position that he currently holds. If one good thing comes out of this maybe him and a few others will go away.

Either the ref recalled or he didn’t. If he didn’t recall, he can’t ignore the scorecard just because the Indy coach said so.

There was the DQ of returning state champ Jason Ward for stalling back about 1998 or 1999. Three stall calls in 22 seconds if memory serves (getting older though - time may be off.).

The "illegal" slam that cost Noah Adams a 4th state championship was terrible.

mattman wrote:The "illegal" slam that cost Noah Adams a 4th state championship was terrible.

So a wrestler performs an illegal move on another and that’s terrible call? That makes zero sense. Can’t have special considerations and rules for a special wrestler. Try again

MaleMatMaid wrote:

mattman wrote:The "illegal" slam that cost Noah Adams a 4th state championship was terrible.

So a wrestler performs an illegal move on another and that’s terrible call? That makes zero sense. Can’t have special considerations and rules for a special wrestler. Try again

Disagree, kid wrestled the rest of the tournament without any problem, felt terrible for Adams.

Our coaches will not win a match like that. You can't continue and you still toe that line and FF the match. An illegal slam is a judgment call and not one person from any county in the state that saw that match that I've spoken with thought the slam was illegal. Integrity!

WrestlingFan1 wrote:

MaleMatMaid wrote:

mattman wrote:The "illegal" slam that cost Noah Adams a 4th state championship was terrible.

So a wrestler performs an illegal move on another and that’s terrible call? That makes zero sense. Can’t have special considerations and rules for a special wrestler. Try again

Disagree, kid wrestled the rest of the tournament without any problem, felt terrible for Adams.

Just because someone couldn’t finish a match doesn’t mean they couldn’t have wrestled another several hours later. Ask Schenny. Illegal means illegal.

mattman wrote:Our coaches will not win a match like that. You can't continue and you still toe that line and FF the match. An illegal slam is a judgment call and not one person from any county in the state that saw that match that I've spoken with thought the slam was illegal. Integrity!

Well it seems as though the referee thought whatever happened was illegal. It is the offensive wrestler’s responsibility to land the other one safely. There is a reason that these rules are in place. Safety.

MaleMatMaid wrote:

mattman wrote:Our coaches will not win a match like that. You can't continue and you still toe that line and FF the match. An illegal slam is a judgment call and not one person from any county in the state that saw that match that I've spoken with thought the slam was illegal. Integrity!

Well it seems as though the referee thought whatever happened was illegal. It is the offensive wrestler’s responsibility to land the other one safely. There is a reason that these rules are in place. Safety.

Its wrestling my guy. You want safety, I would suggest roll bars, a helmet and a good safety seat with a 5 point harness. Noah Adams doesnt wrestle dirty and would he have lost that match with any other outcome except for the good lord coming back? Get real

MaleMatMaid wrote:It is the offensive wrestler’s responsibility to land the other one safely.

Not any more. At states my son was slammed and I thought he broke a rib. I questioned why it wasn't an illegal slam since the wrestler that slammed him neither returned him to the may safely nor did he hit the mat with a knee before my son (which I thought was required) and I was told by the ref that since the other wrestler "exhibited control" it was not an illegal slam. I questioned it. I asked the ref "So as long as you "exhibit control" you can drop them on the mat as hard as you want, even if it leads to injury?" and the ref just shrugged his shoulders at me as if he had no answer and walked away.

I didn't see adams slam but my guess from watching him it was a physical return but not illegal. my understanding of the slam situation is offensive wrestler has to return the guy safely. meaning you can't just drop them on their head, back or like leave your feet to power drive them in the mat as they are defenseless. now as long as they return the guy with no trapped arm on their side or stomach it is the defensive guys responsibility to know how to land to protect himself. i have heard about the knee first your ok but that is a suggestion and not a actual rule to make sure you don't drive them in the mat. i watched a coach try to question that this year and lost the questioning because the kid landed flat on both shoulder blades with his feet still in the air so just because your knee hit first doesn't really matter. i see a lot of slams get called that shouldn't be called solely because the defensive wrestler doesn't know how to properly defend himself and makes it look worse than what it was.

There is nothing in the rule book, and I mean nothing , about a knée hiting the mat first that would nullify a slam, doesn't matter if a knee hits or doesnt, if it's a slam it's slam , if it isn't , then it's not, not sure why many ppl feel this is a rule, just like the "he has to return his opponet within 5 seconds " doesn't exist

technical violation wrote:There is nothing in the rule book, and I mean nothing , about a knée hiting the mat first that would nullify a slam, doesn't matter if a knee hits or doesnt, if it's a slam it's slam , if it isn't , then it's not, not sure why many ppl feel this is a rule, just like the "he has to return his opponet within 5 seconds " doesn't exist

I have literally been told dozens of times by a ref that he called the illegal slam because the wrestlers knee did not hit first. I have never searched the rule book for it. I just accepted that if so many refs were calling it that way then it must be a rule. Obviously I was wrong to accept their word.

mattman wrote:The "illegal" slam that cost Noah Adams a 4th state championship was terrible.

Mr. Adams is phenomenal wrestler and I will take nothing away from the kid, but with that said Noah was losing in the finals his freshman year to Hayden Stewart and won that match because Hayden was not permitted to continuing after breaking/dislocating a finger in the third period. Which Stewart was winning that match with short time left if I do recall

Unfortunately bad things happen to good kids. That’s what makes this sport so great, through the highs an the lows.

FBISURVALINCEVAN1 wrote:

mattman wrote:The "illegal" slam that cost Noah Adams a 4th state championship was terrible.

Mr. Adams is phenomenal wrestler and I will take nothing away from the kid, but with that said Noah was losing in the finals his freshman year to Hayden Stewart and won that match because Hayden was not permitted to continuing after breaking/dislocating a finger in the third period. Which Stewart was winning that match with short time left if I do recall

Unfortunately bad things happen to good kids. That’s what makes this sport so great, through the highs an the lows.

You brought this story up last year. Who didn't permit Mr. Stewart to continue??????

In other news, many of you saw George Washington's Jack Lorea and his dislocated finger on Facebook. Somebody popped it back in place and he went out there and finished the match..........and won. I guess times have changed.

Apparently you were not in attendance during the match with Stewart and Adams. The trainers from all directions worked with the dislocated finger and all were unsuccessful in getting the dislocation to fall back into place. Yes, Stewart was winning the match, yes, Noah Adams is an outstanding wrestler who was, at the time of the injury, losing the match. My question to you: Why would you even question the toughness of the East Fairmont wrestler with the comment you made? Hayden Stewart was a very tough wrestler, my respects to him. You need to quit stirring sh.. You need to stop comparing other injuries to other wrestlers. Anyone that steps on a wrestling mat has my respect.

So with everything that has been said, the Hart-Ward match gets my vote as the worst officiated match ever. The officiating crew, Jeremy Callen, and the Winfield coaches (yes them too) should be ashamed of themselves .

coach_stump wrote:Apparently you were not in attendance during the match with Stewart and Adams. The trainers from all directions worked with the dislocated finger and all were unsuccessful in getting the dislocation to fall back into place. Yes, Stewart was winning the match, yes, Noah Adams is an outstanding wrestler who was, at the time of the injury, losing the match. My question to you: Why would you even question the toughness of the East Fairmont wrestler with the comment you made? Hayden Stewart was a very tough wrestler, my respects to him. You need to quit stirring sh.. You need to stop comparing other injuries to other wrestlers. Anyone that steps on a wrestling mat has my respect.

1. If I was watching the match, I would not have asked the questions. Make sense?

2. Where did I question the EF wrestlers toughness? That is some stuff you concocted in your own head.

3. This particular subject was brought up through comparison of other matches. I didn't bring it up.

4. Maybe you need to relax and take the time to read what I say and respond accordingly rather than dreaming up some angle you think I am working.

Coach let it go. Who do you think the fans of WV will listen to. A Hall of Famer who has devoted his entire life to the youth of the state or a person who spent a total time of 1.44 on the mats at a state tournament. Both kids are class acts and so are you.

forthekids wrote:Coach let it go. Who do you think the fans of WV will listen to. A Hall of Famer who has devoted his entire life to the youth of the state or a person who spent a total time of 1.44 on the mats at a state tournament. Both kids are class acts and so are you.

For the readers,

1. Coach Stump seems to be of higher integrity than most. He comes on here, says what he thinks or knows, contributes to the forum, etc, etc. At least he doesn't send gutless messages on a napkin.

2. "Forthekids" has posted more in recent months to only have most of his comments deleted. Obviously he doesn't under the rules of the forum. Many readers have commented to me that they do not understand why a referee of 35 years would come on the forum and engage in adversarial dialogue. It makes some wonder how being neutral on the mat is possible.

1. Last time I checked this is a open forum. I know of one that got deleted because I asked it to be.
2. I have had hundreds and I do mean hundreds of people come to me and thank me for my post.
3. I let my officiating speak for itself. For anyone to think I am basis surely hasn't seen me officiate much. I will continue to officiate as long as the coaches continue to ask me too. Because in reality that is what counts.
4. I have no idea what you are talking about napkin. I have no problem saying what is on my mind.

I try to stay off this board because as hundred coaches have told me it is not worth it. I quote them, "some think they can while others actually get out and do! This is will be my last post as it is not worth it to me. DOC busted his butt to give us this forum and no matter what I or other people say there will be people who try to downgrade it on a daily basis.

Lastly and like always,
I do not hide behind a screen name.
Chris Diserio

PS Hayden and Noah class acts, great wrestlers and was a honor to call so many of your matches

forthekids wrote:1. Last time I checked this is a open forum. I know of one that got deleted because I asked it to be.
2. I have had hundreds and I do mean hundreds of people come to me and thank me for my post.
3. I let my officiating speak for itself. For anyone to think I am basis surely hasn't seen me officiate much. I will continue to officiate as long as the coaches continue to ask me too. Because in reality that is what counts.
4. I have no idea what you are talking about napkin. I have no problem saying what is on my mind.

I try to stay off this board because as hundred coaches have told me it is not worth it. I quote them, "some think they can while others actually get out and do! This is will be my last post as it is not worth it to me. DOC busted his butt to give us this forum and no matter what I or other people say there will be people who try to downgrade it on a daily basis.

Lastly and like always,
I do not hide behind a screen name.
Chris Diserio

PS Hayden and Noah class acts, great wrestlers and was a honor to call so many of your matches

I have tried to call you twice today and no answer but you are free to type on here.

I will call you again tonight. I will explain to you the napkin story. I will also tell you what is being said in Fairmont. Maybe we can figure this all out.

Based on what you have said, you know nothing about the napkin story. Great!

This should be interesting.

forthekids wrote:1. Last time I checked this is a open forum. I know of one that got deleted because I asked it to be.
2. I have had hundreds and I do mean hundreds of people come to me and thank me for my post.
3. I let my officiating speak for itself. For anyone to think I am basis surely hasn't seen me officiate much. I will continue to officiate as long as the coaches continue to ask me too. Because in reality that is what counts.
4. I have no idea what you are talking about napkin. I have no problem saying what is on my mind.

I try to stay off this board because as hundred coaches have told me it is not worth it. I quote them, "some think they can while others actually get out and do! This is will be my last post as it is not worth it to me. DOC busted his butt to give us this forum and no matter what I or other people say there will be people who try to downgrade it on a daily basis.

Lastly and like always,
I do not hide behind a screen name.
Chris Diserio

PS Hayden and Noah class acts, great wrestlers and was a honor to call so many of your matches

Just a thought, how about someone from the officiating community commenting on the Hart-Ward match and how it all was handled so wrong.

Sometimes it is difficult to determine the legality of a move.

In order to do so one must attend rules clinics and local rules meetings.

All controversial matches are subject to interpretation.

It is even more difficult to determine the legality from peanut heaven.

To do so one should spend a considerable amount of time on the mat not in the seats.

Narcissism can be defined as an over-exaggerated opinion of one's own self worth.

I can’t wrestle and I sure couldn’t officiate a match. I admire all that do these two things.

I do see all from the 22nd row. None of it is relevant.