EF vs EF

[forthekids]

Better idea, win your wrestle off and wrestle varsity. Life is not fair. Great learning experience for life. Only hire one person for job not two! REALLY REALLY have to get away from everybody gets a trophy! This is a tough sport! But the lessons the learn will last them a life time!

[Treerat]

It's not about everyone getting a trophy. It's about the best wrestlers going to states which will never happen because some regions might have a 5th place wrestler better than a champion from another region. It's a problem that would be hard to fix.

[keepitinthecircle]

Hiring the wrong person for the job is bad also. Varsity kids from schools A, B, C, D, and E winning a trophy and "JV" kid from school F that beats all those is someone getting a trophy that shouldn't have.

[Bearhugger]

Better idea, win your wrestle off and wrestle varsity. Life is not fair. Great learning experience for life. Only hire one person for job not two! REALLY REALLY have to get away from everybody gets a trophy! This is a tough sport! But the lessons the learn will last them a life time!

There is nothing said about "everybody gets a trophy". You were in Cameron reffing the matches. You saw that EF 106 whip everybody's ass except his team mate. The JV EF 106 went on the mat and beat everybody from all of the other schools. He was the second best in the building. He earned his trophy because he had the opportunity to compete.

Wrestling is not teaching anything as long as the schools shut down because it is too cold. Put on a coat and get to school and get an education. Everybody is supposed to get up and go to work, even when it is cold.

Since the schools are teaching kids to stay home in bed, lets forget about life lessons. Lets get the best on the mat. These kids are the best because they work...................even when it is cold.

[Bearhugger]

Hiring the wrong person for the job is bad also. Varsity kids from schools A, B, C, D, and E winning a trophy and "JV" kid from school F that beats all those is someone getting a trophy that shouldn't have.

We had it last year. There were kids on the state podium that lost twice to a JV wrestler last season.

[aacoach29]

Some of you that are pushing for every wrestler on your team to participate in the state tournament must have never got to be a starter on your high school team or never participated in this sport at all. Not hearing about this issue elsewhere, not hearing any discussion of this nature in colleges where everyone is good. If one doesn't start at a given school, transfer to another. Seems that is taking place quite often. You have your opinion, I have mine. To 'Forthekids', I lost job opportunities because I was probably not the best applicant for that position, but learned to deal with it, trying to make my resume a little better next time.

[aacoach70]

Regardless of my opinion, it occurs to me that it could be a no-win situation for the talented JV kid who actually did qualify for the state tournament. The starter could beat him rather easily and receive maximum team points if the JV kid lays down for him. On the flip side, how would you like to be the one that knocked your own team out of a state title? Poor kid might have to move out of town.

[Frank]

Here's a fictional senerio that could never exist
In a school far far away
In a made up weight class
I know of a 142 pounder who can beat his team late at 147lbs.
His team mate can not cut to 142 due to the weight certs.
Both wrestlers should place high in the states if not win it.
But the 142lbser makes the sacrifice of the weight cut for his teammate, his team, and sometimes his brother. Are there any life lesson learned in this senero.
Other then spelling

[forthekids]

So you are saying all Penn state, Ohio state etc back ups should go to NCAA’s because they don’t have the best there. This entire thread makes no sense to me.

[Frank]

So you are saying all Penn state, Ohio state etc back ups should go to NCAA’s because they don’t have the best there. This entire thread makes no sense to me.

Bearhugger and gators love child is a jv wrestler for the central mingo panthers and there both convinced that if the boy eats enough China one him and the varsity 119lber would make the finals if of course the pill doesn't screw them. But it wouldn't matter in how because they wouldn't be able to watch in the big sandy arena do to poor seating and lack of reality

[Bearhugger]

Some of you that are pushing for every wrestler on your team to participate in the state tournament must have never got to be a starter on your high school team or never participated in this sport at all. Not hearing about this issue elsewhere, not hearing any discussion of this nature in colleges where everyone is good. If one doesn't start at a given school, transfer to another. Seems that is taking place quite often. You have your opinion, I have mine. To 'Forthekids', I lost job opportunities because I was probably not the best applicant for that position, but learned to deal with it, trying to make my resume a little better next time.

The push has been for every wrestler to wrestle in the region, not the state. Many folks fail to catch that detail.

[Bearhugger]

Regardless of my opinion, it occurs to me that it could be a no-win situation for the talented JV kid who actually did qualify for the state tournament. The starter could beat him rather easily and receive maximum team points if the JV kid lays down for him. On the flip side, how would you like to be the one that knocked your own team out of a state title? Poor kid might have to move out of town.

Your example insinuates that the JV wrestler is going to qualify through regionals and then beat three wrestlers at the state tournament to then meet his teammate in the finals. If this happens, then giving the JV the opportunity was the right thing. He (or she) was the second best in the state.

If it gets this far, I doubt anybody is going to lay down. I haven't seen anybody lay down yet in these other tournaments.

[Bearhugger]

So you are saying all Penn state, Ohio state etc back ups should go to NCAA’s because they don’t have the best there. This entire thread makes no sense to me.

These colleges do not have participation issues like the state of West Virginia does. College athletes typically get something in return such as scholarships.

The idea of letting JV wrestle in the regionals will provide incentive "for the kids" to stick out the season, stay with the sport and it will help fill the depleted regional tournament brackets. One or two JVs might break through, which will only make that weight class tougher at the state tournament.

The push for this is "for the kids", not what other states do and do not do. It is "for the kids", not what colleges do. It is "for the kids" today whereas we cannot go back in time and do anything "for the kids" of the 1970s, the mullet wearing kids of the 80s or the kids who were not the "cream" on some legendary coach's team.

[aacoach70]

No, 'Hugger, that's not quite what I said. The state tournament is not the other tournaments. The potential to meet in ANY round, especially the semifinals, would most likely result in an easy win for the starter. Taking the loss here would be the only safe choice. So, no, wouldn't have to be the finals. Individuals win titles, but teams go years, possibly decades,.. entire generations pass through a program trying to get the right combination of talent, skill, determination, and some good fortune, to win a state title. Our communities understand and get behind a team title more so than individual ones. I think even if the coach did not instruct his JV wrestler about how to lose this match, I think the kids would work out that conclusion anyway. As I said, it's a no-win for him. People are not going to pat him on the back if he costs his team to lose the state title. I know it's slim chances, but any plan that did allow a non-scoring wrestler in the bracket has the potential for this to happen.

[mriggleman]

I really wish I could come on here and see a new topic now and again. I know I am going to regret this post… but here goes.

-I am sure Kyle Dake would love for second string to be allowed to compete for Olympic/world medals. He is better than a lot of the people that make it. but since he doesn't beat Burroughs so he doesn't go. Instead he goes back to the grind in the hopes that someday it will be enough.

-Ignore the “if Varsity and JV wrestle each other and JV happens to win.” Instead what happens when the varsity squad needs a win plus 1.5 bonus points to win a state title and the JV wrestler gets pinned by his buddy that just had a 3 point match 4 weeks earlier? (This is what AACoach70 is talking about)

-“But in track and XC...” Track can have 3 VARSITY athletes in 1 event, and all of them score for the team. XC has 7 Varsity team members and all of them score or block for their team.

-“But WVSSAC is the problem…” WVSSAC is a collection of principals
**Do you really think coming on here constantly calling out the Principals of schools is going to help your case in changing WVSSAC's mind?
**Are they going to allow it for wrestling but not other sports?
**Let's say they allow it (Which won’t happen) and the following year they allow it in all Sports.
**Are you going to be happy when Martinsburg JV football team makes the playoff as the 15th seed?

-But it isn't fair to the kids... Isn't it? My son is currently JV. He had a decent youth career, but currently he is in the room daily trying to get better and earn his spot. He has found a hole a time or two but other athletes who are better quickly close that hole. So he grinds away in the hopes of someday it will be enough. Maybe it won’t. But I promise you he is learning more about life and working harder now than if he had an easy spot given to him. And I know he will be a harder working adult because of this. "Oh you, 'Know?' how do you 'know' he will be better because of this?" Great question. I hope you can put that together from the rest of this.

-But it isn't about all the JVs it is about the exceptions.
**If there was someone who was the exception and he spoke out against JV wrestlers in the regional tournament. Would you move on?
**If there was someone who was JV their freshman year behind a state champ & place winner, learned how to work hard and deal with tough situations so they would be on varsity the following year. Then as a sophomore become lucky enough to stand on top of the podium. Would you let it go?
**What if this same person told you that the determination can turn into arrogance and loss of focus? Manifesting as a dip in work ethic and a 3rd place finish as a Junior. In turn creating a driving force that the athlete had never seen or attempted before. Only to have their senior season taken away by a freak injury.
**What if the person who went through that came on here and said because of the lessons they learned as a JV Wrestler helped them to not only get through that disappointment but to also strive to become successful in other arenas in life.
**What if that same person wouldn't change being JV and not allowed to compete at regionals for the world because it shaped them into the adult they are today. Would you understand? or would you brush them off as the exception to the exception?

You say “for the kids” when it is actually “for your entertainment”
If it is really “for the kids” let this wonderful sport do what it does and teach the hard life lessons that it teaches. They will become better adults because of it.

Sincerely,
Mike Riggleman
Berkeley Springs JV wrestler – ’93
(I am sure you can figure out the rest)

[Diamond]

No, 'Hugger, that's not quite what I said. The state tournament is not the other tournaments. The potential to meet in ANY round, especially the semifinals, would most likely result in an easy win for the starter. Taking the loss here would be the only safe choice. So, no, wouldn't have to be the finals. Individuals win titles, but teams go years, possibly decades,.. entire generations pass through a program trying to get the right combination of talent, skill, determination, and some good fortune, to win a state title. Our communities understand and get behind a team title more so than individual ones. I think even if the coach did not instruct his JV wrestler about how to lose this match, I think the kids would work out that conclusion anyway. As I said, it's a no-win for him. People are not going to pat him on the back if he costs his team to lose the state title. I know it's slim chances, but any plan that did allow a non-scoring wrestler in the bracket has the potential for this to happen.

There is NO F-ING WAY I would expect or ask a kid to lose a match intentionally under any circumstance. Particularly the state championship. That, to me, is an unbelievable expectation. Hypothetically speaking...

[forthekids]

I really wish I could come on here and see a new topic now and again. I know I am going to regret this post… but here goes.

-I am sure Kyle Dake would love for second string to be allowed to compete for Olympic/world medals. He is better than a lot of the people that make it. but since he doesn't beat Burroughs so he doesn't go. Instead he goes back to the grind in the hopes that someday it will be enough.

-Ignore the “if Varsity and JV wrestle each other and JV happens to win.” Instead what happens when the varsity squad needs a win plus 1.5 bonus points to win a state title and the JV wrestler gets pinned by his buddy that just had a 3 point match 4 weeks earlier? (This is what AACoach70 is talking about)

-“But in track and XC...” Track can have 3 VARSITY athletes in 1 event, and all of them score for the team. XC has 7 Varsity team members and all of them score or block for their team.

-“But WVSSAC is the problem…” WVSSAC is a collection of principals
**Do you really think coming on here constantly calling out the Principals of schools is going to help your case in changing WVSSAC's mind?
**Are they going to allow it for wrestling but not other sports?
**Let's say they allow it (Which won’t happen) and the following year they allow it in all Sports.
**Are you going to be happy when Martinsburg JV football team makes the playoff as the 15th seed?

-But it isn't fair to the kids... Isn't it? My son is currently JV. He had a decent youth career, but currently he is in the room daily trying to get better and earn his spot. He has found a hole a time or two but other athletes who are better quickly close that hole. So he grinds away in the hopes of someday it will be enough. Maybe it won’t. But I promise you he is learning more about life and working harder now than if he had an easy spot given to him. And I know he will be a harder working adult because of this. "Oh you, 'Know?' how do you 'know' he will be better because of this?" Great question. I hope you can put that together from the rest of this.

-But it isn't about all the JVs it is about the exceptions.
**If there was someone who was the exception and he spoke out against JV wrestlers in the regional tournament. Would you move on?
**If there was someone who was JV their freshman year behind a state champ & place winner, learned how to work hard and deal with tough situations so they would be on varsity the following year. Then as a sophomore become lucky enough to stand on top of the podium. Would you let it go?
**What if this same person told you that the determination can turn into arrogance and loss of focus? Manifesting as a dip in work ethic and a 3rd place finish as a Junior. In turn creating a driving force that the athlete had never seen or attempted before. Only to have their senior season taken away by a freak injury.
**What if the person who went through that came on here and said because of the lessons they learned as a JV Wrestler helped them to not only get through that disappointment but to also strive to become successful in other arenas in life.
**What if that same person wouldn't change being JV and not allowed to compete at regionals for the world because it shaped them into the adult they are today. Would you understand? or would you brush them off as the exception to the exception?

You say “for the kids” when it is actually “for your entertainment”
If it is really “for the kids” let this wonderful sport do what it does and teach the hard life lessons that it teaches. They will become better adults because of it.

Sincerely,
Mike Riggleman
Berkeley Springs JV wrestler – ’93
(I am sure you can figure out the rest)

THAT IS PERFECTLY SAID AND HIT IT ON THE HEAD. THANK YOU!.

[maskedman]

I really wish I could come on here and see a new topic now and again. I know I am going to regret this post… but here goes.

-I am sure Kyle Dake would love for second string to be allowed to compete for Olympic/world medals. He is better than a lot of the people that make it. but since he doesn't beat Burroughs so he doesn't go. Instead he goes back to the grind in the hopes that someday it will be enough.

-Ignore the “if Varsity and JV wrestle each other and JV happens to win.” Instead what happens when the varsity squad needs a win plus 1.5 bonus points to win a state title and the JV wrestler gets pinned by his buddy that just had a 3 point match 4 weeks earlier? (This is what AACoach70 is talking about)

-“But in track and XC...” Track can have 3 VARSITY athletes in 1 event, and all of them score for the team. XC has 7 Varsity team members and all of them score or block for their team.

-“But WVSSAC is the problem…” WVSSAC is a collection of principals
**Do you really think coming on here constantly calling out the Principals of schools is going to help your case in changing WVSSAC's mind?
**Are they going to allow it for wrestling but not other sports?
**Let's say they allow it (Which won’t happen) and the following year they allow it in all Sports.
**Are you going to be happy when Martinsburg JV football team makes the playoff as the 15th seed?

-But it isn't fair to the kids... Isn't it? My son is currently JV. He had a decent youth career, but currently he is in the room daily trying to get better and earn his spot. He has found a hole a time or two but other athletes who are better quickly close that hole. So he grinds away in the hopes of someday it will be enough. Maybe it won’t. But I promise you he is learning more about life and working harder now than if he had an easy spot given to him. And I know he will be a harder working adult because of this. "Oh you, 'Know?' how do you 'know' he will be better because of this?" Great question. I hope you can put that together from the rest of this.

-But it isn't about all the JVs it is about the exceptions.
**If there was someone who was the exception and he spoke out against JV wrestlers in the regional tournament. Would you move on?
**If there was someone who was JV their freshman year behind a state champ & place winner, learned how to work hard and deal with tough situations so they would be on varsity the following year. Then as a sophomore become lucky enough to stand on top of the podium. Would you let it go?
**What if this same person told you that the determination can turn into arrogance and loss of focus? Manifesting as a dip in work ethic and a 3rd place finish as a Junior. In turn creating a driving force that the athlete had never seen or attempted before. Only to have their senior season taken away by a freak injury.
**What if the person who went through that came on here and said because of the lessons they learned as a JV Wrestler helped them to not only get through that disappointment but to also strive to become successful in other arenas in life.
**What if that same person wouldn't change being JV and not allowed to compete at regionals for the world because it shaped them into the adult they are today. Would you understand? or would you brush them off as the exception to the exception?

You say “for the kids” when it is actually “for your entertainment”
If it is really “for the kids” let this wonderful sport do what it does and teach the hard life lessons that it teaches. They will become better adults because of it.

Sincerely,
Mike Riggleman
Berkeley Springs JV wrestler – ’93
(I am sure you can figure out the rest)

Enough said, well said, and a salute to you.

[mscoach90]

Starters, have the chance to earn a spot at the state tourny. JV's have the chance to start in wrestle offs.
Talk is cheap, takes money, to buy whiskey.
(No, I'm not advocating the consumption of alcohol)
It's simply mean's you get what you earn.

[Bearhugger]

No, 'Hugger, that's not quite what I said. The state tournament is not the other tournaments. The potential to meet in ANY round, especially the semifinals, would most likely result in an easy win for the starter. Taking the loss here would be the only safe choice. So, no, wouldn't have to be the finals. Individuals win titles, but teams go years, possibly decades,.. entire generations pass through a program trying to get the right combination of talent, skill, determination, and some good fortune, to win a state title. Our communities understand and get behind a team title more so than individual ones. I think even if the coach did not instruct his JV wrestler about how to lose this match, I think the kids would work out that conclusion anyway. As I said, it's a no-win for him. People are not going to pat him on the back if he costs his team to lose the state title. I know it's slim chances, but any plan that did allow a non-scoring wrestler in the bracket has the potential for this to happen.

I choose to believe that any JV kid the QUALIFIES THROUGH THE REGION and PARTICIPATES IN THE STATE TOURNAMENT is going to go with the intent of placing or winning.

[Bearhugger]

No, 'Hugger, that's not quite what I said. The state tournament is not the other tournaments. The potential to meet in ANY round, especially the semifinals, would most likely result in an easy win for the starter. Taking the loss here would be the only safe choice. So, no, wouldn't have to be the finals. Individuals win titles, but teams go years, possibly decades,.. entire generations pass through a program trying to get the right combination of talent, skill, determination, and some good fortune, to win a state title. Our communities understand and get behind a team title more so than individual ones. I think even if the coach did not instruct his JV wrestler about how to lose this match, I think the kids would work out that conclusion anyway. As I said, it's a no-win for him. People are not going to pat him on the back if he costs his team to lose the state title. I know it's slim chances, but any plan that did allow a non-scoring wrestler in the bracket has the potential for this to happen.

There is NO F-ING WAY I would expect or ask a kid to lose a match intentionally under any circumstance. Particularly the state championship. That, to me, is an unbelievable expectation. Hypothetically speaking...

Any adult that would ask a kid to lay down and lose on purpose has been smoking too much "devil's lettuce". Any adult that would even think that another adult would ask a kid to do this has also probably been smoking too much "devil's lettuce". If a coach asked my kid to do that, I would find a way to make the coach regret it one way or another.

[Bearhugger]

Starters, have the chance to earn a spot at the state tourny. JV's have the chance to start in wrestle offs.
Talk is cheap, takes money, to buy whiskey.
(No, I'm not advocating the consumption of alcohol)
It's simply mean's you get what you earn.

You are missing the point. There are a few kids in WV that are in the top 5 BEST. They are also JV because the kid in front of them is also in the top 5.

There is no JV football competition where a JV team plays a varsity team. There is no JV basketball competition where a JV team plays a varsity team. Those forms of competition do not exist in WV. However, we see JV wrestlers competing in tournaments every weekend against varsity wrestlers and sometimes beating them. This happens because wrestling is an individual sport that keeps a team score. Go ask all of the teams with 8 wrestlers or less. How are they doing in the "team rankings"? Not as good as some of their individuals. I do not ignore these facts.

[Bearhugger]

I really wish I could come on here and see a new topic now and again. I know I am going to regret this post… but here goes.

-I am sure Kyle Dake would love for second string to be allowed to compete for Olympic/world medals. He is better than a lot of the people that make it. but since he doesn't beat Burroughs so he doesn't go. Instead he goes back to the grind in the hopes that someday it will be enough.

-Ignore the “if Varsity and JV wrestle each other and JV happens to win.” Instead what happens when the varsity squad needs a win plus 1.5 bonus points to win a state title and the JV wrestler gets pinned by his buddy that just had a 3 point match 4 weeks earlier? (This is what AACoach70 is talking about)

-“But in track and XC...” Track can have 3 VARSITY athletes in 1 event, and all of them score for the team. XC has 7 Varsity team members and all of them score or block for their team.

-“But WVSSAC is the problem…” WVSSAC is a collection of principals
**Do you really think coming on here constantly calling out the Principals of schools is going to help your case in changing WVSSAC's mind?
**Are they going to allow it for wrestling but not other sports?
**Let's say they allow it (Which won’t happen) and the following year they allow it in all Sports.
**Are you going to be happy when Martinsburg JV football team makes the playoff as the 15th seed?

-But it isn't fair to the kids... Isn't it? My son is currently JV. He had a decent youth career, but currently he is in the room daily trying to get better and earn his spot. He has found a hole a time or two but other athletes who are better quickly close that hole. So he grinds away in the hopes of someday it will be enough. Maybe it won’t. But I promise you he is learning more about life and working harder now than if he had an easy spot given to him. And I know he will be a harder working adult because of this. "Oh you, 'Know?' how do you 'know' he will be better because of this?" Great question. I hope you can put that together from the rest of this.

-But it isn't about all the JVs it is about the exceptions.
**If there was someone who was the exception and he spoke out against JV wrestlers in the regional tournament. Would you move on?
**If there was someone who was JV their freshman year behind a state champ & place winner, learned how to work hard and deal with tough situations so they would be on varsity the following year. Then as a sophomore become lucky enough to stand on top of the podium. Would you let it go?
**What if this same person told you that the determination can turn into arrogance and loss of focus? Manifesting as a dip in work ethic and a 3rd place finish as a Junior. In turn creating a driving force that the athlete had never seen or attempted before. Only to have their senior season taken away by a freak injury.
**What if the person who went through that came on here and said because of the lessons they learned as a JV Wrestler helped them to not only get through that disappointment but to also strive to become successful in other arenas in life.
**What if that same person wouldn't change being JV and not allowed to compete at regionals for the world because it shaped them into the adult they are today. Would you understand? or would you brush them off as the exception to the exception?

You say “for the kids” when it is actually “for your entertainment”
If it is really “for the kids” let this wonderful sport do what it does and teach the hard life lessons that it teaches. They will become better adults because of it.

Sincerely,
Mike Riggleman
Berkeley Springs JV wrestler – ’93
(I am sure you can figure out the rest)

Enough said, well said, and a salute to you.

I skimmed this manifesto. However, when I see somebody compare an Olympic wrestler to some 15 year old wrestler in West Virginia, I usually move on. Good spelling and sentence structure though. I see this guy went to school even when it was cold.

[aacoach70]

What's that you said? I must be too high to comprehend.

[Bearhugger]

I really wish I could come on here and see a new topic now and again. I know I am going to regret this post… but here goes.

-I am sure Kyle Dake would love for second string to be allowed to compete for Olympic/world medals. He is better than a lot of the people that make it. but since he doesn't beat Burroughs so he doesn't go. Instead he goes back to the grind in the hopes that someday it will be enough.

-Ignore the “if Varsity and JV wrestle each other and JV happens to win.” Instead what happens when the varsity squad needs a win plus 1.5 bonus points to win a state title and the JV wrestler gets pinned by his buddy that just had a 3 point match 4 weeks earlier? (This is what AACoach70 is talking about)

-“But in track and XC...” Track can have 3 VARSITY athletes in 1 event, and all of them score for the team. XC has 7 Varsity team members and all of them score or block for their team.

-“But WVSSAC is the problem…” WVSSAC is a collection of principals
**Do you really think coming on here constantly calling out the Principals of schools is going to help your case in changing WVSSAC's mind?
**Are they going to allow it for wrestling but not other sports?
**Let's say they allow it (Which won’t happen) and the following year they allow it in all Sports.
**Are you going to be happy when Martinsburg JV football team makes the playoff as the 15th seed?

-But it isn't fair to the kids... Isn't it? My son is currently JV. He had a decent youth career, but currently he is in the room daily trying to get better and earn his spot. He has found a hole a time or two but other athletes who are better quickly close that hole. So he grinds away in the hopes of someday it will be enough. Maybe it won’t. But I promise you he is learning more about life and working harder now than if he had an easy spot given to him. And I know he will be a harder working adult because of this. "Oh you, 'Know?' how do you 'know' he will be better because of this?" Great question. I hope you can put that together from the rest of this.

-But it isn't about all the JVs it is about the exceptions.
**If there was someone who was the exception and he spoke out against JV wrestlers in the regional tournament. Would you move on?
**If there was someone who was JV their freshman year behind a state champ & place winner, learned how to work hard and deal with tough situations so they would be on varsity the following year. Then as a sophomore become lucky enough to stand on top of the podium. Would you let it go?
**What if this same person told you that the determination can turn into arrogance and loss of focus? Manifesting as a dip in work ethic and a 3rd place finish as a Junior. In turn creating a driving force that the athlete had never seen or attempted before. Only to have their senior season taken away by a freak injury.
**What if the person who went through that came on here and said because of the lessons they learned as a JV Wrestler helped them to not only get through that disappointment but to also strive to become successful in other arenas in life.
**What if that same person wouldn't change being JV and not allowed to compete at regionals for the world because it shaped them into the adult they are today. Would you understand? or would you brush them off as the exception to the exception?

You say “for the kids” when it is actually “for your entertainment”
If it is really “for the kids” let this wonderful sport do what it does and teach the hard life lessons that it teaches. They will become better adults because of it.

Sincerely,
Mike Riggleman
Berkeley Springs JV wrestler – ’93
(I am sure you can figure out the rest)

I do not think I have ever read where a "JV wrestler" has actually come on here and said "I have become this happy, great successful person because I was a JV wrestler". In addition, nobody has come on here and said "in my day, I was behind a wrestler who finished in the top three at states. I whipped up on two of the state place winners in AA/A and I defeated two state place winners in AAA. If I could have competed, I would have placed too. However, my single mom couldn't make it work for me to transfer to another school. My wrestling career was clogged up because I was behind one of the best. The lesson I learned is you get held back because of your body weight and the zip code you live in".

[TheBoxer]

I really wish I could come on here and see a new topic now and again. I know I am going to regret this post… but here goes.

-I am sure Kyle Dake would love for second string to be allowed to compete for Olympic/world medals. He is better than a lot of the people that make it. but since he doesn't beat Burroughs so he doesn't go. Instead he goes back to the grind in the hopes that someday it will be enough.

-Ignore the “if Varsity and JV wrestle each other and JV happens to win.” Instead what happens when the varsity squad needs a win plus 1.5 bonus points to win a state title and the JV wrestler gets pinned by his buddy that just had a 3 point match 4 weeks earlier? (This is what AACoach70 is talking about)

-“But in track and XC...” Track can have 3 VARSITY athletes in 1 event, and all of them score for the team. XC has 7 Varsity team members and all of them score or block for their team.

-“But WVSSAC is the problem…” WVSSAC is a collection of principals
**Do you really think coming on here constantly calling out the Principals of schools is going to help your case in changing WVSSAC's mind?
**Are they going to allow it for wrestling but not other sports?
**Let's say they allow it (Which won’t happen) and the following year they allow it in all Sports.
**Are you going to be happy when Martinsburg JV football team makes the playoff as the 15th seed?

-But it isn't fair to the kids... Isn't it? My son is currently JV. He had a decent youth career, but currently he is in the room daily trying to get better and earn his spot. He has found a hole a time or two but other athletes who are better quickly close that hole. So he grinds away in the hopes of someday it will be enough. Maybe it won’t. But I promise you he is learning more about life and working harder now than if he had an easy spot given to him. And I know he will be a harder working adult because of this. "Oh you, 'Know?' how do you 'know' he will be better because of this?" Great question. I hope you can put that together from the rest of this.

-But it isn't about all the JVs it is about the exceptions.
**If there was someone who was the exception and he spoke out against JV wrestlers in the regional tournament. Would you move on?
**If there was someone who was JV their freshman year behind a state champ & place winner, learned how to work hard and deal with tough situations so they would be on varsity the following year. Then as a sophomore become lucky enough to stand on top of the podium. Would you let it go?
**What if this same person told you that the determination can turn into arrogance and loss of focus? Manifesting as a dip in work ethic and a 3rd place finish as a Junior. In turn creating a driving force that the athlete had never seen or attempted before. Only to have their senior season taken away by a freak injury.
**What if the person who went through that came on here and said because of the lessons they learned as a JV Wrestler helped them to not only get through that disappointment but to also strive to become successful in other arenas in life.
**What if that same person wouldn't change being JV and not allowed to compete at regionals for the world because it shaped them into the adult they are today. Would you understand? or would you brush them off as the exception to the exception?

You say “for the kids” when it is actually “for your entertainment”
If it is really “for the kids” let this wonderful sport do what it does and teach the hard life lessons that it teaches. They will become better adults because of it.

Sincerely,
Mike Riggleman
Berkeley Springs JV wrestler – ’93
(I am sure you can figure out the rest)

I do not think I have ever read where a "JV wrestler" has actually come on here and said "I have become this happy, great successful person because I was a JV wrestler". In addition, nobody has come on here and said "in my day, I was behind a wrestler who finished in the top three at states. I whipped up on two of the state place winners in AA/A and I defeated two state place winners in AAA. If I could have competed, I would have placed too. However, my single mom couldn't make it work for me to transfer to another school. My wrestling career was clogged up because I was behind one of the best. The lesson I learned is you get held back because of your body weight and the zip code you live in".

Isn’t that exactly what he was saying? He was a JV wrestler behind a state champ and placewinner. Became a state champ the following year? And if I read correctly he is saying his life is better because of being JV? Maybe I misread it?

[KDunbar]

For the benefit of youth and high school wrestling as a whole nation wide (and not limit the benefit merely to WV) and to promote the sport locally to show all the locals just how good wrestlers can become with enough time and dedication to the sport, why don't we open up the post season regional or high school tournament to all bordering states JV wrestlers (KY, OH, PA MD, and VA), along with all those in WV, and we all would be more likely to see the best of the best and watch where the cream flows. Now that would truly be progressive and no one in WV could complain about some WV kid "just getting a trophy" unearned. For clarification purposes, which seems necessary on this forum, I'm being sarcastic.

[CoachY]

I really wish I could come on here and see a new topic now and again. I know I am going to regret this post… but here goes.

-I am sure Kyle Dake would love for second string to be allowed to compete for Olympic/world medals. He is better than a lot of the people that make it. but since he doesn't beat Burroughs so he doesn't go. Instead he goes back to the grind in the hopes that someday it will be enough.

-Ignore the “if Varsity and JV wrestle each other and JV happens to win.” Instead what happens when the varsity squad needs a win plus 1.5 bonus points to win a state title and the JV wrestler gets pinned by his buddy that just had a 3 point match 4 weeks earlier? (This is what AACoach70 is talking about)

-“But in track and XC...” Track can have 3 VARSITY athletes in 1 event, and all of them score for the team. XC has 7 Varsity team members and all of them score or block for their team.

-“But WVSSAC is the problem…” WVSSAC is a collection of principals
**Do you really think coming on here constantly calling out the Principals of schools is going to help your case in changing WVSSAC's mind?
**Are they going to allow it for wrestling but not other sports?
**Let's say they allow it (Which won’t happen) and the following year they allow it in all Sports.
**Are you going to be happy when Martinsburg JV football team makes the playoff as the 15th seed?

-But it isn't fair to the kids... Isn't it? My son is currently JV. He had a decent youth career, but currently he is in the room daily trying to get better and earn his spot. He has found a hole a time or two but other athletes who are better quickly close that hole. So he grinds away in the hopes of someday it will be enough. Maybe it won’t. But I promise you he is learning more about life and working harder now than if he had an easy spot given to him. And I know he will be a harder working adult because of this. "Oh you, 'Know?' how do you 'know' he will be better because of this?" Great question. I hope you can put that together from the rest of this.

-But it isn't about all the JVs it is about the exceptions.
**If there was someone who was the exception and he spoke out against JV wrestlers in the regional tournament. Would you move on?
**If there was someone who was JV their freshman year behind a state champ & place winner, learned how to work hard and deal with tough situations so they would be on varsity the following year. Then as a sophomore become lucky enough to stand on top of the podium. Would you let it go?
**What if this same person told you that the determination can turn into arrogance and loss of focus? Manifesting as a dip in work ethic and a 3rd place finish as a Junior. In turn creating a driving force that the athlete had never seen or attempted before. Only to have their senior season taken away by a freak injury.
**What if the person who went through that came on here and said because of the lessons they learned as a JV Wrestler helped them to not only get through that disappointment but to also strive to become successful in other arenas in life.
**What if that same person wouldn't change being JV and not allowed to compete at regionals for the world because it shaped them into the adult they are today. Would you understand? or would you brush them off as the exception to the exception?

You say “for the kids” when it is actually “for your entertainment”
If it is really “for the kids” let this wonderful sport do what it does and teach the hard life lessons that it teaches. They will become better adults because of it.

Sincerely,
Mike Riggleman
Berkeley Springs JV wrestler – ’93
(I am sure you can figure out the rest)

I do not think I have ever read where a "JV wrestler" has actually come on here and said "I have become this happy, great successful person because I was a JV wrestler". In addition, nobody has come on here and said "in my day, I was behind a wrestler who finished in the top three at states. I whipped up on two of the state place winners in AA/A and I defeated two state place winners in AAA. If I could have competed, I would have placed too. However, my single mom couldn't make it work for me to transfer to another school. My wrestling career was clogged up because I was behind one of the best. The lesson I learned is you get held back because of your body weight and the zip code you live in".

I think you missed the lesson. Possibly, the lesson was life is not always fair, pick yourself up, dust yourself off, get back to work and chase your goals.

[Bearhugger]

I really wish I could come on here and see a new topic now and again. I know I am going to regret this post… but here goes.

-I am sure Kyle Dake would love for second string to be allowed to compete for Olympic/world medals. He is better than a lot of the people that make it. but since he doesn't beat Burroughs so he doesn't go. Instead he goes back to the grind in the hopes that someday it will be enough.

-Ignore the “if Varsity and JV wrestle each other and JV happens to win.” Instead what happens when the varsity squad needs a win plus 1.5 bonus points to win a state title and the JV wrestler gets pinned by his buddy that just had a 3 point match 4 weeks earlier? (This is what AACoach70 is talking about)

-“But in track and XC...” Track can have 3 VARSITY athletes in 1 event, and all of them score for the team. XC has 7 Varsity team members and all of them score or block for their team.

-“But WVSSAC is the problem…” WVSSAC is a collection of principals
**Do you really think coming on here constantly calling out the Principals of schools is going to help your case in changing WVSSAC's mind?
**Are they going to allow it for wrestling but not other sports?
**Let's say they allow it (Which won’t happen) and the following year they allow it in all Sports.
**Are you going to be happy when Martinsburg JV football team makes the playoff as the 15th seed?

-But it isn't fair to the kids... Isn't it? My son is currently JV. He had a decent youth career, but currently he is in the room daily trying to get better and earn his spot. He has found a hole a time or two but other athletes who are better quickly close that hole. So he grinds away in the hopes of someday it will be enough. Maybe it won’t. But I promise you he is learning more about life and working harder now than if he had an easy spot given to him. And I know he will be a harder working adult because of this. "Oh you, 'Know?' how do you 'know' he will be better because of this?" Great question. I hope you can put that together from the rest of this.

-But it isn't about all the JVs it is about the exceptions.
**If there was someone who was the exception and he spoke out against JV wrestlers in the regional tournament. Would you move on?
**If there was someone who was JV their freshman year behind a state champ & place winner, learned how to work hard and deal with tough situations so they would be on varsity the following year. Then as a sophomore become lucky enough to stand on top of the podium. Would you let it go?
**What if this same person told you that the determination can turn into arrogance and loss of focus? Manifesting as a dip in work ethic and a 3rd place finish as a Junior. In turn creating a driving force that the athlete had never seen or attempted before. Only to have their senior season taken away by a freak injury.
**What if the person who went through that came on here and said because of the lessons they learned as a JV Wrestler helped them to not only get through that disappointment but to also strive to become successful in other arenas in life.
**What if that same person wouldn't change being JV and not allowed to compete at regionals for the world because it shaped them into the adult they are today. Would you understand? or would you brush them off as the exception to the exception?

You say “for the kids” when it is actually “for your entertainment”
If it is really “for the kids” let this wonderful sport do what it does and teach the hard life lessons that it teaches. They will become better adults because of it.

Sincerely,
Mike Riggleman
Berkeley Springs JV wrestler – ’93
(I am sure you can figure out the rest)

I do not think I have ever read where a "JV wrestler" has actually come on here and said "I have become this happy, great successful person because I was a JV wrestler". In addition, nobody has come on here and said "in my day, I was behind a wrestler who finished in the top three at states. I whipped up on two of the state place winners in AA/A and I defeated two state place winners in AAA. If I could have competed, I would have placed too. However, my single mom couldn't make it work for me to transfer to another school. My wrestling career was clogged up because I was behind one of the best. The lesson I learned is you get held back because of your body weight and the zip code you live in".

Isn’t that exactly what he was saying? He was a JV wrestler behind a state champ and placewinner. Became a state champ the following year? And if I read correctly he is saying his life is better because of being JV? Maybe I misread it?

Maybe so. I read the words "Kyle Dake" and quit reading.

[Bearhugger]

For the benefit of youth and high school wrestling as a whole nation wide (and not limit the benefit merely to WV) and to promote the sport locally to show all the locals just how good wrestlers can become with enough time and dedication to the sport, why don't we open up the post season regional or high school tournament to all bordering states JV wrestlers (KY, OH, PA MD, and VA), along with all those in WV, and we all would be more likely to see the best of the best and watch where the cream flows. Now that would truly be progressive and no one in WV could complain about some WV kid "just getting a trophy" unearned. For clarification purposes, which seems necessary on this forum, I'm being sarcastic.

Wrestling is filled with sarcasm. Go to your next meet. Take a legal pad. Make two columns. One column is for the coaches shaking their heads and/or putting their face in their hands when their wrestler gives up some points. The other column is for when the coach claps, yells encouragement and does/says anything to fire up their wrestler and keep/get him in the match. I assure you that by the end of the meet, you will have more tallies for the shaking heads.

Also, West Virginia wrestling needs to learn to solve some problems and/or take the lead without dragging in what other states do or do not do.